macmanx,
where did you find this 10% law?
i studied music business in college and took a bunch of copyright law (mainly music) classes… and that doesn’t sound familiar.
it is however very curious.
any insight would be great!
thanks
I think that 10% was plucked out of thin air…
I think that 10% was plucked out of thin air…
::memo to self:: Past and present experience proves that this forum is filled with jack-asses who would rather accuse than do their own research. Isn’t it wonderful how I always get singled out? Why do I even bother? Good ethics? What a joke. Thank you Jinsan, you’ve given me good cause to take at least a week’s vacation from here.
macmanx: Actually, I consider myself fairly knowledgable on copyright law, and even I had to go “huh?” I know of the 10 percent rule for fair use, but not anything on the issue of modifications to a copyrighted product.
Kaf, I was just using it as a guideline. I said it up in the post that everyone is ignoring. The part about “I figure that it’s a good standard to live by when making derivatives.”
Anywho, I’m taking my week’s vacation starting now. Let the shit fly. That’s what these forums are good for anyways.
notthatugly:
“I wonder how many theme developers are actually bothering to annotate every template they edit with the date and details of their modifications.”
I suspect not as many as there should be.
“So many of the supposedly GPL ones don’t even bother to state the licence (is that legal?)”
Copyright is implied in a created work, but any license requirements should be stated (explicitly!). However, copyright normally trumps licensing, and in the case of no specified license (or release to public domain), one should go back to the original author on issues of modified and/or redistributed code.
(Note: I am not a lawyer)
macmanx:
“I was just using it as a guideline.”
Well, it is a good one.
Enjoy the time off. You’ve earned it. ;)
Enjoy the time off. You’ve earned it. 😉
Yet … kind people like you make it hard for me to leave. Oh well, I’m going to at least take a few hours off. Thanks for your support, Kaf.
I didn’t mean to accuse anyone and I am sorry that is how you interpreted that.
I really just wanted to find your source so in the future I would be correct if I was speaking of such matters.
Copyright Law fascinates me and I like to be correct on such matters if there is something I am unaware of.
Thanks.
Ok, so here’s my proposal for an attribution guideline when modifying themes:
1%-10% — Still the same theme. Changes are considered customizations or “flavors” of the original. Copyright and original license must be kept.
11%-50% — Theme “inspired by” original. Reference to copyright, etc. must note original author. New elements (images, templates, code) not in original fall under current author’s copyright (naturally). Original license must be kept.
51%-%90 — This is a new theme. Original is seen as a “base.” Work is considered derivative, but not “appropriated”. Reference to original theme/author is suggested. Original license must be kept.
91%-99% — If I can’t recognize any of my theme in yours, I’m not sure how I’d enforce issues of copyright/license/etc. For this, we’ll have to rely on trust (I know, but sometimes you have no choice).
100% — What’s this doing here?
All % values are subjective–there’s no way around that. However, we can certainly hash out general areas of modification that fall under each. For example, swapping colors is an obvious 1%. Changing a fixed-width template to fluid is probably starting to step into the 11% category.
[EDIT: Made slight changes after posting in regards to licensing. This proposal is also dependent on themes which offer a license allowing for modification and redistribution. Most, but not all, will.]
I like that Kafka – I write, so copyright IS a big deal to me, and that’s a pretty fair division, logical I think. And I think it’s marvelous that barbarac asked the question to begin with.
Macmanx, I will miss you while you’re gone, have fun, be careful!
macmanx I’ll take your comments as a compliment. you should perhaps rephrase your “Guideline” rather than phrasing it as a fact. As I said it sounds like it got plucked fm thin air – how do you define the percentage of a theme? Kaf’s guidelines look like guidelines, but even then, you can stick a % next to a theme and say this theme is X% changed. What to one person is a 50% modification, someone else will argue is a 100% modification. When you start guessing and making numbers up, it’s going to cause a helluva lot of problems as some users may just feel inclinded to think it “looks” like it’s 50% and therefore he’ll call it 50%.
Funnily enough, Macmanx actually offered similar advice before here:
http://wordpress.org/support/topic.php?id=24672
What helped me understand this was when he used examples comparing kubruck a to be and then c. That gives a better impression. Still, I think it’s such a subjective question for the most part that everyone will have a different opinion – but as NP states, the rips offs and those that are clearly default are very easy to distinguish. Even then, many do keep the credits in the CSS if not the link.
I’ll take your comments as a compliment.
That’s good. Thinking positive is always good.
As I said it sounds like it got plucked fm thin air
“The 10 percent rule suggests using 10 percent or less of a total work is considered fair use. “
Here’s one of many Google search results: http://www.nisd.net/sdevww/html/OnlineLearning/DigitalCopyright/fairuse.htm
How do you define the percentage of a theme [or any similar object]?
I’m not sure, but judges do it all the time, so it is possible.
When you start guessing and making numbers up, it’s going to cause a helluva lot of problems
That must be why there are so many problems with the U.S. government. But, as you can see from above, I wasn’t guessing, nor was I making up anything.
Funnily enough, Macmanx actually offered similar advice before here:
I don’t see what’s funny about offering similar advice. Should I consider randomly changing my advice from time-to-time?
What helped me understand this was when he used examples comparing kubruck a to be and then c. That gives a better impression.
That’s why I offered that comparison as an example.
If we’re talking digital copyright, are we discussing specifically code, or everything? I;m sure the relevant lobby groups would argue that any use of their precious material is digital copyright with no room for fair use.
I’ve hit a nerve, obviously and you’ve taken it personally, strangely. But I guess that’s your choice. I’m not going to go into a tit-for-tat debate on this, but I just can’t see how you would judge 10% of a theme. Anyone want to do a write up? I mean then of course you have the different licenses – and if a theme is 50% or even 95% different from the original can you actually change the license – I guess the answer is no.
It’s a topic that perhaps needs thawing out, and maybe someone could do an actual write up – again % are a tough one, because of the range, it makes it more difficult – what determines the difference between 10% and 11%?or 11% and 13%?
If you perhaps use a scale that can distinguish more succinctly whether a theme sits in x or y, that would be quite useful. Or do away with the 10% and start from somewhere higher up? It’s a messy one.
I would consider 10% of a theme simple color and font changes. Anything else would be more of a percentage – if you use custom art or photos, if you change the layout dramatically, etc.
I could probably use Kafka’s percentage layout above and add what I would consider the “hard lines” to it. But then, I never have any problem crediting where credit is due so I don’t need to do that for myself.
I don’t originate themes. I’m a theme junkie. Those who put themes up for use never have to worry about me taking their copyright statements out. I sometimes even add to them….
