About users accusing developers for damages and mod responses

  • George Notaras

    (@gnotaras)


    10 years, 8 months ago

    Hi all,

    A user just accused me for revenue loss this morning because of his inability to configure one of my plugins properly for his websites. This is fine. I can accept that every now and then I will have to deal with such users and our previous discussions have helped me better handle such incidents.

    However, what I would like to point out is @anevins response, who, once again in a 1-star review of the very same plugin, jumps in and defends the inexplicable user. He had done it before by defending a user’s right to post a 1-star review with the nonsense text Nasty review deleted after finding the answer to my question. My bad, its been a long week..

    As I see it, the expected behavior in both cases would be to at least also write a remark about the user’s invalid claims or invalid review content. Instead, he decides to clearly take sides and defend the user’s right to demonstrate inexplicable behavior, as if the user is the customer and the developer is the bad employee. I find this unfair and totally unacceptable.

    The fact that this has happened twice by the same mod in the same plugin’s reviews, makes me wonder if @anevins has a personal problem with me or my work, which influences his decision making and leads him into being partial.

    If this is the case, @anevins please tell me what makes you take the user’s side in such cases, without writing even a simple remark about the user’s mistakes and invalid claims. There is a solution to every problem and I’m ready to discuss it.

    On the other side, if this is not the case and this has just happened randomly, then I’m sorry for pointing it out. But, I’d like to say that such behavior is annoying and creates more problems than it solves. In fact, today, noone invited a mod in the discussion. I just suggested that the user should ask a mod to delete the misleading and full of invalid claims review.

    Despite all the above, @anevins, I clearly state that I have no problem with you and in good faith I think you are doing your demanding job as good as possible. But, please man, I’m putting a lot of time and energy for free into this. A user misused a plugin and screwed his website and now he is accusing the developer for revenue loss. If you jump into the discussion, please say something about the user’s invalid claims, otherwise you are making them sound legit.

    Kind Regards,
    George

Viewing 7 replies - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)
  • Moderator Jan Dembowski

    (@jdembowski)

    Forum Moderator and Brute Squad

    10 years, 8 months ago

    Hi George, how are you? Just to be clear, we’re discussing this review.

    https://wordpress.org/support/topic/crashing-site-php-warning-cannot-modify-header-information?replies=8

    However, what I would like to point out is @anevins response, who, once again in a 1-star review of the very same plugin, jumps in and defends the inexplicable user. He had done it before by defending a user’s right to post a 1-star review with the nonsense text Nasty review deleted after finding the answer to my question. My bad, its been a long week..

    It’s pretty clear cut and dried and this has been discussed before: user’s reviews here are feedback. That’s all that there is to it.

    The fact that this has happened twice by the same mod in the same plugin’s reviews,

    I’ll happily reply in Andrew’s place if need be. But I’ve also reviewed what he wrote in that review. He’s still correct and there was nothing inappropriate in Andrew’s reply. I’d have replied along the same lines.

    If you jump into the discussion, please say something about the user’s invalid claims, otherwise you are making them sound legit.

    That is not at all the case, I am commenting about the reviews in general. I am not legitimizing anyone’s review except to say that that review

    1. it is feedback
    2. While the claim may be possibly outlandish, it does not cross the line
    3. You can always reply well and that does count for a lot in these forums.

    I just suggested that the user should ask a mod to delete the misleading and full of invalid claims review.

    If the user makes that request in that review then that will be considered and the review may be deleted.

    Now here’s my heartfelt and serious suggestion to you: let this go.

    A review you did not like was posted months ago. I think you may agree with me that you didn’t reply very well. I don’t know why the original reviewer felt the need to poke at it hours ago, but that happened. Your latest reply wasn’t really much better, though longer and much more factual.

    As long as it’s civil (and you are) then you can reply anyway you see fit or not at all. The reviewers can continue to do the same.

    Why not in a professional way try a different tact? Have you considered replying something like

    “Can you consider working with me to identify where your problem actually was? I am 100% sure it was not my plugin but something occurred and I’d like to help you find what it is.”

    It’s your time and if you don’t want to make an offer like that then I fully understand. But a positive reply does get seen by users and the 1 star doesn’t matter when you do that.

    But if there’s anymore non-productive back and forth there then I’m inclined to close that review from anymore replies. At some point accusations just stop being useful.

    Thread Starter George Notaras

    (@gnotaras)

    10 years, 8 months ago

    Hello Jan,

    I don’t really want to contradict any of your arguments, because you are right in every aspect of your reply.

    However, I’d like to say that I have the impression that Andrew’s reply, since he decided to get involved in the discussion, lacked a small mention to the wording of the user’s comment, which implied that I or the plugin are responsible for his lost revenue, which is not the case, regardless of the view in which we assess the situation. The user did not configure the plugin for his special needs and, according to his claims, lost revenue. Noone else can be held responsible for it except for his own mistakes.

    Even in the hypothetical scenario that the GPL’d code had caused direct damages to the user, the terms of the license clearly and explicitly move all responsibility to the user. It is the use of the code that causes the damages and not the developer. Claims like the ones expressed by the user could not stand legally.

    Andrew could not possibly miss this point, since my whole reply to the user was about those invalid claims. Nevertheless, Andrew decided to mention nothing about it and I didn’t really understand why, since I think this is quite important. Hence this topic, just in case there is anything personal involved…

    Anyway, I’ve already let go.

    BTW, I don’t really care about the 1-star review. Sincerely, I don’t want it to be deleted, since it is almost certain that I’ll have to go through the same situation again in the future by another user who will be doing it wrong. Much time has been wasted for the discussion about those two reviews of this plugin, so it is good to keep them around so new users gain some knowledge and experience before submitting similar invalid reviews. I don’t like them, but they have their uses.

    Kind Regards,
    George

    Thread Starter George Notaras

    (@gnotaras)

    10 years, 8 months ago

    Please let’s not waste more time with this. It’s not worth it. Jan, thanks for your clear thinking. It has been helpful.

    George

    Thread Starter George Notaras

    (@gnotaras)

    10 years, 8 months ago

    BTW, I don’t really care about the 1-star review. Sincerely, I don’t want it to be deleted,

    Well, that’s not 100% true. Wish there was a way to avoid such invalid reviews. IMO, an invalid review is always invalid. Anyway…

    Thread Starter George Notaras

    (@gnotaras)

    10 years, 8 months ago

    I have one more request and I’ve reopened this topic.

    I’ve taken a second look at the review’s comments.

    Since the user’s review has a legal aspect and since a mod got involved in the discussion leaving room for speculation that he approves the user’s claims and accusations, I request a clear statement by @anevins in the aforementioned review that the developer is in no way responsible for any damages caused by the user’s misuse or misconfiguration of the plugin.

    I think @anevins has at least the ethical obligation to post such a clear statement.

    George

    Miroslav Glavić

    (@miroslavglavic)

    10 years, 8 months ago

    A plugin not working/configured properly CAN technically speaking be loss revenue. I had plugins that crashed my site. Last one was JetPack’s Protect settings. I made a theread, others did, it eventually got solved. weeks later. I just turned Protect off.

    YES I READ THE WHOLE THREAD YOU LINKED.

    People ARE allowed to leave 1-star reviews if they want. Just like you ARE allowed to not reply to support questions.

    I personally would of removed your plugin and looked for a similar plugin. Without leaving 1-star review (or any kind of review), which is a bad thing.

    You wrote: This happens because it hates you. <—THAT IS NOT NICE

    You also wrote: FYI, if, instead of posting this ridiculous 1-star review, you had posted proper and detailed feedback in the forum, there is a possibility that I would have spent my free time helping you investigate and hopefully resolve the issue so as to enjoy the bandwidth/server-load/seo benefits, but it turns out you know better and have made your choice.

    Part of freedom of choice is to chose not to do that investigating the issue.

    I generally don’t bother with contacting the author of a “sucky” plugin. Many plugins don’t exactly do what their description says (not accusing yours of doing that).

    If you don’t like 1-star reviews then maybe you shouldn’t create plugins on here?

    I don’t like the idea of you dictating anyone how they should rate your plugin. You put it up here, which has a risk for people rating it 1-star if they want.

    Moderator Jan Dembowski

    (@jdembowski)

    Forum Moderator and Brute Squad

    10 years, 8 months ago

    Just to chime in for another moment.

    I think @anevins has at least the ethical obligation to post such a clear statement.

    No, he doesn’t and I’d appreciate if you’d please stop focusing on one moderator. His reply was acceptable and he does not have any obligation ethical or otherwise.

    Once again, I sincerely and truly recommend that you let this go.

    This was a poor review. You replied just as poorly. Now here were are. It’s enough and I am closing this topic now. It’s not productive anymore and all that can be said is said already.

Viewing 7 replies - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)

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