Support » Plugin: Gutenberg » You want this to replace the core text editor? Really? Really?

  • Bloody hell. That’s insane.

    You see, the basic text editor that we currently use is great for just writing blog posts, one of the main reasons to use WordPress. But what this is… it’s closer to a page builder. You’ve said in your reviews that it’s not, but that’s what it feels like, shoving everything into content blocks and customizing each block on its own. That’s what most page builder plugins do. But it doesn’t mesh nicely with the core of WordPress blog post making. I just want to be able to write a paragraph of text without having a mile of space around it, I just want to be able to see a basic toolbar at the top. If anything, at first glance, it looks like there’s less functionality. Editing text is hidden away, and if you’re writing a blog post, do you need the ability to clone a section of text? That’s why we have copy and paste. These changes could have all been neat little additions to the existing text editor rather than a total revamp.

    I’m not saying give up on this as a plugin, because it could be a very nice recommended plugin, on the lines of Buddypress. Another, optional way of creating posts and pages. I’m saying give up on making this a core part of WordPress, because it doesn’t fit with the rest of WordPress. You’re making basic blog posts into pages.

    Heavens knows the cost to the WordPress community. How many man hours and how much money is it going to cost to make sure that the thousands of plugins out there will be able to be updated? And what the hell is this going to do to my blog with nearly 2000 posts on it should it become a part of WordPress?

    • This topic was modified 5 days, 1 hour ago by  Phovos.
Viewing 5 replies - 1 through 5 (of 5 total)
  • @phovos Your 5-star rating does not match your review. 😉

    I did set it to 1 star… Unless someone changed it…

    Moderator Marius L. J.

    (@clorith)

    Hiya,

    Firstly, thank you for taking the time to leave a review and letting us know how your experience with Gutenberg has been!

    As for your review, we don’t modify review ratings, but some times there may be hiccups in the system and the value wasn’t included, and the default value is 5. You can edit your review at any time to fix this though!

    I’d love to have a look at your concerns as well, as I understand this new change can be confusing, and a little bit scary moving forward.

    Gutenberg isn’t just a new editor, it’s a new editing experience. You’ll see that we’ve updated the entire edit screen, covering content as well as meta data (those boxes that float around the text editor it self).These are changes that have been long requested, and have had tickets existing for many years. It felt strange to not address the whole screen and only parts of it when we wanted to bring new functionality and modern behaviors into the mix.

    As for the spacing around blocks, this can actually be modified by your theme, allowing them to give as close a representation of how the content will look on the front end as possible (we even encourage them to do so). This was, in part, possible with the classic editor as well, but Gutenberg gives them much more control and allows for a much cleaner and truer representation of what things will look like, if themes chose to make use of it.

    You can still see the toolbars up top and similar, although not easy to discover right away if you click the ellipsis in of the editor there’s an option to fix the toolbar to the top of the editing screen. You can even add the classic editor into Gutenberg (we added it as a block for those that feel more comfortable with it, or need that little bit of extra control over their content).

    Cloned text is intended more for repeated content, it’s there to give flexibility to users, and if you don’t need it for your posts, you don’t have to use it.

    I am curious about one of your statements:

    I’m saying give up on making this a core part of WordPress, because it doesn’t fit with the rest of WordPress.

    What about it doesn’t fit with the rest of WordPress, and how do you see it blending in better?

    As for your last concern, the one of hours and cost. We’ve been actively educating developers for over a year now, with talks and workshops at WordCamps, as well as frequent updates on developer related areas here on WordPress.org. This means that anyone interested in adding specific support or interactions with Gutenberg should have been at least in the loop by now and have an idea of what needs doing.

    I should note though, that for what I suspect is a majority of plugins, they won’t have to change anything, only plugins that interact directly with the editor will you see a need for larger changes to be properly compatible once it is released.

    As for themes, they will still display content like before, and we are taking steps to ensure compatibility and fallbacks are in place should other plugins or themes declare use of anything that’s not supported. You can see https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/ for some information about the project as a whole, as well as what we are doing in terms of compatibility.

    I should also note that this change won’t affect existing content, we will not retroactively go through every posts, page, etc. and modify. When you open old content you’ll be shown a legacy block with your content in the classic editor inside the new editor window. You can then choose to convert it to the new format, or leave it as is.

    We do also have some alternatives for those that feel they are not ready for the new experience just yet. You can use the Classic Editor plugin to force the current look once WordPress 5.0 is released, or you could use Gutenberg Ramp to enable it only for some content at a time if you for example wish to test it out on pages, but not on posts to begin with.

    Moderator Andrew Nevins

    (@anevins)

    WCLDN 2018 Contributor | Volunteer support

    I did set it to 1 star… Unless someone changed it…

    You made a mistake and set it to 5 star, nobody has the authority to change your review rating and that functionality does not exist.

    Firstly, thank you for taking the time to leave a review and letting us know how your experience with Gutenberg has been!

    As for your review, we don’t modify review ratings, but some times there may be hiccups in the system and the value wasn’t included, and the default value is 5. You can edit your review at any time to fix this though!

    Eh I must have messed up then. My bad.

    As for the spacing around blocks, this can actually be modified by your theme, allowing them to give as close a representation of how the content will look on the front end as possible (we even encourage them to do so). This was, in part, possible with the classic editor as well, but Gutenberg gives them much more control and allows for a much cleaner and truer representation of what things will look like, if themes chose to make use of it.

    This would be alright but only really if it’s automatic. If one has to fiddle around with a theme to make what’s seen on the editor match what’s on the website then at the end of the day does it really make much difference? If one of your goals is to make backend match frontend then perhaps frontend editing would have been a better idea.

    You can still see the toolbars up top and similar, although not easy to discover right away if you click the ellipsis in of the editor there’s an option to fix the toolbar to the top of the editing screen. You can even add the classic editor into Gutenberg (we added it as a block for those that feel more comfortable with it, or need that little bit of extra control over their content).

    Cloned text is intended more for repeated content, it’s there to give flexibility to users, and if you don’t need it for your posts, you don’t have to use it.

    But that’s the thing. Things shouldn’t be “not easy to discover right away”, requiring clicking on some little dots. Really, this is my biggest issue with the new system, that it’s kinda not really clear and obvious what you’re being presented with. You get a plain, blank screen and some options on the side, with important things like the Publish button stuck away at the top, next to what looks like two options menus (the gear and the ellipsis), and everything else being stuck behind the “Block” tab.

    And cloned text really does feel like something a page builder would use. Is it really something that people use on blog posts and the like?

    What about it doesn’t fit with the rest of WordPress, and how do you see it blending in better?

    I feel that it goes past the layout of all other WordPress pages. The menus and everything you want to edit are on the right of the page, rather on the left like the Customizer and the normal WordPress menu, losing the boundaries between what is menu and options and what is one’s content. Everything else is squished up at the top of the page rather than having some breathing room, and a lot of labels are replaced with symbols rather than basic text.

    Rather than being presented with boxes you can fill in, it’s got a clean, surgical look. Like a blank piece of paper.

    As for your last concern, the one of hours and cost. We’ve been actively educating developers for over a year now, with talks and workshops at WordCamps, as well as frequent updates on developer related areas here on WordPress.org. This means that anyone interested in adding specific support or interactions with Gutenberg should have been at least in the loop by now and have an idea of what needs doing.

    I should note though, that for what I suspect is a majority of plugins, they won’t have to change anything, only plugins that interact directly with the editor will you see a need for larger changes to be properly compatible once it is released.

    That doesn’t actually cover the man hours and time and money that will be required to update plugins though. Sure they’re in the loop but they’ve got to spend time and money to fix their stuff up because WordPress has suddenly decided to completely shake up their editor. And at the same time, it’s a whole new learning experience, sites that have multiple levels of users will have to reteach how to use the new editing system.

    I should also note that this change won’t affect existing content, we will not retroactively go through every posts, page, etc. and modify. When you open old content you’ll be shown a legacy block with your content in the classic editor inside the new editor window. You can then choose to convert it to the new format, or leave it as is.

    Well that’s good, I guess. But that still leaves us with the following:

    We do also have some alternatives for those that feel they are not ready for the new experience just yet. You can use the Classic Editor plugin to force the current look once WordPress 5.0 is released, or you could use Gutenberg Ramp to enable it only for some content at a time if you for example wish to test it out on pages, but not on posts to begin with.

    It seems paradoxical to make a large change and force users to get a plugin to go back. Why can’t we keep things as we are and have a plugin to change things? You’re dragging users forward rather than giving them the option to move forward themselves. And that just leaves a sour taste in a lot of people’s mouths.

    My biggest issue is that this system will be rolled into WordPress 5.0. As a plugin, it’s not something I enjoy using at all, but I can see maybe some people would like a very simplified pagebuilder-esque sort of thing. But in a CMS that applauds having choices, it seems weird to force out such a big change.

    The thing is, you WILL go ahead with this, no matter what users and developers say.

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