If you were looking for a link, hit that back button, this just an idea…
I know you’ll all say that the wordpress documentation covers it but I really think it’d be good to have a whole site based around wordpress theme development (needs a good name). The site covers everything including CSS and XHTML from the ground up, as well as a forum to go with it. It will also go into the clever stuff and maybe simplify it for beginners. Finaly download exmples (of styles or wordpress loop edits`0 will be available.
Does anyone think this is a good idea?
Would anyone be willing to help?
Nick, I don’t care if you critisise 🙂
Anyone, really tell me its shit if you want…
Honestly, and this isnt to be rude or insensitive — and bear in mind, youve opened up a potentially “sore” subject (atleast for me you have).
There are 100’s of 1000’s of web sites that already cover “everything including CSS and XHTML from the ground up” Unfortunately, people do NOT seach out those sites for information before coming here; for instance, a recent thread here involving removing a border around an image.. and thats just one example.
We exist in a world where people not only think they are entitled to whatever information they need or in most cases, they just want, but the vast majority of those people also think they they dont have to do anything to get it.
“_______ helps those that help themselves” no longer applies.
Couple that with the fact that blogs are trendy, and well. “wordpress looks so easy” and “ohhh look at that site, I want one too”, and you have forums like this one and others, I might add, that are deluged with people trying to “run” and “tweek” wordpress when they have nearly a clue about what running a static web site entails.
In other words, they dont know shit, and they want their hand held. And, in my opinion, they do not want to learn.
They just want the end result, without the work.
I liken it to people that install some Linux distro and are then shocked that they might actually have to read something in order to be successful at it.
Web mastering takes work. It also takes dilegence and patience, and a WILLINGNESS to seek out information in diferent areas. Far too many people fail to realize that before going down that trendy little road.
We dont need more web sites. We need better users.
** I do realize that you were specifically adressing theming .. my entire post applies to that as well. How many people have actually cracked open the files they have downloaded and tried to figure out what makes what tick.
Last time I checked, every browser had a view source option somewhere in it, and yet.. its so damn tough for people to look at the source, and compare what they see to their files, even just for the sake of understanding a little better ..
Hell, these days you get grief when you try to tell someone they need to validate their site. “ohh, you mean those 200 changes i made to the theme, trying to add a middle column, and reduce the other column screwed it up?? That’s why my site looks like horseshit?? I just figured it was the theme.
Guess i should have read http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0764501712/103-8105340-8682267?v=glance&n=283155”
http://wordpress.org/support/topic/79160?replies=1 <– need i say more 🙁 Im going to bed, its that or implode.
whooami: love the post, you’ve pretty much convinced me, but I do look at other people sources/css sheets and themes, but I suppose loads of people just want to be told what to do, which I guess is pathetic…
Sadly, I don’t think anyone (users) will change their ways yet…
Yeah I do see your point but looking over it again i relise that the site would be a breath of fresh air for users who can be bothered, and it will only cover the CSS and XHTML needed for wordpress (rather than digging through loads of crap). Then there will be examples where the people look at source code, and NO help will be given to people who want ‘a theme ready made’ (unless they ask, im doing free-freelance design currently :))
I liken it to people that install some Linux distro
I like the analogy – both Linux (assuming a newbie friendly distro) and WP work quite easily out of the box, but if you want heavy customization, you have to do a little work.
I think you hit the nail on the head with “WordPress looks easy”. It is incredibly easy for what is really a CMS (albeit a specialised one), so it gets recommended to people who do not know much. It also raises expectations that everything will be easy.
I am actually recently suggested that my father uses WordPress (he can just about manage a simple static site). Of course in his case he will ask me questions rather than the forums (that is what he does with Linux as well).
I’m kind of with whoo on this… I learned how to tweak WP and make changes to themes by using MY brain, and MY time. Sure, if I get stuck after working on something for hours, I come here. But there is far too much of non-WP-specific help being asked around here. I’m guilty of helping people through their CSS/theme issues when I can, but to be honest, most times I’d rather tell people to go to Google and teach themselves like I did.
Sure, WP is “easy” – out of the box with a premade theme. But anything else takes a brain, and I’d like to throw in an old (slightly twisted) adage myself: “Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Tell a man to go spend his own damn money on a rod and bait, as well as some “how-to” books, and he eats for a lifetime.”
I taught myself everything I know, and started over 10 years ago. Today I own my own web design and SEO/Marketing company. No one held my hand along the way – I made use of PROPER forums, search engines, and other help sites.
I’m about to start sending people to http://www.lissaexplains.com for their CSS/xHTML help!
But my point is that people (people that do use their brain and time) can get examples of how to use the wordpress code, rather than searching for a particular site that has the thing they want, or asking silly CSS or XHTML questions which do belong in other places, but it would be more convinent to have CSS and XHTML questions on the same site as wordpress examples/tricks, my problem is that to set up this site I would need people to help and add wordpress loop hacks and extras etc etc…
It wouldn’t help. We would have the same amount of questions. So, I consider it a useless exercise…
yeah but really its not designed to stop all the anoying questions here but its to seperate all those who actually care but have trouble getting support here (due to people who dont try posting too much), its a place for people that care to access all they need to do anything with their wordpress design.
I have to chime in and agree with Whoo about a certian pet peeve of mine — validation.
It seems that many of the sites people post links to here don’t validate XHTML Transitional — let alone CSS. Yet people like their themes. Fine. No problem there. Run whatever you want on your own site — but for the love of all things good, how come when I download themes that people release many don’t even validate??? That’s just lazy.
Okay. I’ll get off my soapbox.
As always, just my $0.02
Lol, loads, well most themes at any theme site or and personal themes don’t validate, people just don’t care or have a clue how to start, they need to digg into the code a bit more.
And Whooami: this site would involve digging around in code, people would have to care, the site wouldn’t be designed to get rid of the annoying questions here but t would be a place for the people who do care to get their handson some code all in one place.
Billy, you can do whatever you want. If you think youre more of an “expert” on WordPress than the gobs of people here that support this site, and have something to offer, then go for it.
Ive no doubt that you might generate some traffic, so dont forget to toss up that google adsense code all over the place. C’mon, you KNOW you wanna. EVERYONE wants to jump on the WordPress money bandwagon, if they can find a way. My guess — thats your intent, and well thats fine, I guess.
Im too smart to buy that sappy “I want to help people” bullshit, sorry, especially when someone is trying as hard as you to convince..
Finally. I hate to tell you but the fact is, and will always be, that THE best support for WordPress comes from this site, and ONLY this site, even under the worst of circumstances, and even when crotchetly old bags such as myself are the ones doing the helping.. Nothing you have to offer will ever match the entirity of this site. Nothing.
Notice I delineate helpers and askers.
- The topic ‘WordPress Theme Development’ is closed to new replies.