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Will WordPress 2.3 import simple tag plugin tags? (30 posts)

  1. Darran
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    I want to know if the new version of WordPress 2.3 will allow importing of tags from Simple Tag? I know it has extended this feature to UTW.

    I hope someone can let me know

  2. rosicrux
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    I also wish to know this, as I have most of my site already tagged with simple tag. Simple tag had a great importer from Jason's tags (I think that's what it was called), Hopefully this new tag system will have some importers built in.

  3. BLT-FQX
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    If you have tried WP 2.3-beta1, you will find it in "import" at wp-admin.

  4. Darran
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    I have only heard of the import for UTW being in the new version, there hasn't actually been any implementation for Simple Tagging. Can you confirm this?

  5. BLT-FQX
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    Oh yes.
    The importer is in the SVN, and actually you can download it in the plugin section by searching "Simple Tagging Import".

  6. Darran
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    By any chance will it be included in the core?

    I think what's most important right now is for us users to minimize the use of php processes. And a less plugin would certainly be the 1st step in doing that.

  7. Darran
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    Looks like in WordPress 2.3 Beta 2, there are importers for simple tagging and jerome's keywords. Do check it out! I shall be installing it on my local installation.

  8. Darran
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    It works fine when I imported the Simple Tagging tags, but there should be somewhere to manage it. And how do I create a tag cloud?

  9. Err... somewhere to manage what, exactly?

    As for tag clouds:
    http://codex.wordpress.org/Template_Tags/wp_tag_cloud

  10. Darran
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    Manage tags, so we can rename, delete them whatever, just as we did with UTW and Simple Tagging.

  11. Tags are kinda new to the WordPress core. The new tag functionality is therefore rather simple. There is no tag management screen, as such. Tags are simply keywords attached to posts. Perhaps that sort of functionality will be added in the future, or more likely put into a plugin first and then moved into core when it's found to be useful enough.

  12. Darran
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    I suppose the closest to tag management would through the use of the tag cloud.

    When we are writing a new post, we should also have a way to select an already present tag instead of typing it ourselves.

    I hope this can be considered for WordPress 2.3 though because these are the basic functions. I have got my current theme to work with using WordPress 2.3 tags.

  13. doc_holiday
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    I just loaded up 2.3 beta 3 on my development box and my to my surprise, there is no tag management feature. I was very surprised about this indeed and without a doubt someone will be writing a plugin to allow this. Pity it didn't make it to the core this first go.

  14. You guys keep saying tag management without specifying exactly what that means.

    Details. The development team needs details. What, exactly, are you wanting this to include? Rename existing tags? Delete tags? Darran mentions some kind of tag selection feature?

    Unless you explain WTF you're talking about, I can guarantee you that it will not be added to the core. The developers are not mind readers.

    I use tags extensively, and even I have no idea what you're talking about. I do know what Darran says about adding tags easily, as UTW has that feature, but I disabled it as I found it to be extremely annoying. But that's me, and I am not you.

    What do you do with tags? How does your tag workflow process work? Explain it, in excruciating detail. Tell the story. Then the developers have something to read and something to get ideas from. Without those ideas, no changes will ever occur.

  15. powerboys
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    OK, I'll give a single example of the sort of thing I would like in a "tag management" page.

    To be able to rename a tag and have that tag replaced in all the posts in which it appears.

    - For example, I might have used a tag "howto" and a tag "help" at different times and later decide that they mean exactly the same thing.
    - I decide that "howto" is much more l33t than "help", so I decide to rename all instances of "help" to "howto".
    - Now all my howto-help posts have the same tag.

    I do this occasionally on del.icio.us, but I can see that this would be more important on my own site as I want a tag cloud (or whatever) that is more consistent for other people to find their way around.

  16. Similar requirements:

    1. Easy selection of existing tags from the post form. A drop down list (as available in UTW) would be one way, or a block on the side, where categories live now.
    2. Add tags on the fly (the current interface in 2.3b3 allows this, so that's OK
    3. Ability to delete, rename and merge tags

    That's about it. This may well be plugin territory, as different people will want different things from tags. I'm hoping Christine will create a new UTW that provides an interface similar to the current plugin...

  17. KirkM
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    Otto42,

    In answer to your above question. Each current tagging plugin available has some type of tagging management system. I believe that the Simple Tagging plugin has the best example of this and the most logical plugin to check out since it's functions are fairly basic as compared to UTW which is a much more powerful plugin.
    Three examples for an initial basic Tag Management system I would like to see and most likely others who have been using tags for quite awhile now:

    1. UI for easily adding and deleting tags as needed.

    2. UI for working your tag cloud (number of tags, min and max size selection, colors etc) and include user instructions thereof (short paragraph with the code(s) needed to properly display the cloud).

    3. Same for a "Related Posts" feature and controlling thereof. IE: How many related posts listed for each single post and the code needed to display the list on a single post page.

    4. (for the future) Adding a tag cloud to the post editor for easy reference when adding tags to a post during writing and possibly showing which tags are assiged to posts in "Manage/Posts" (much like categories are currently).

    The existing import feature could be included in this Tag Management UI as well to centralize the whole thing. As I said, the Simple Tagging plugin gives an great example of a management UI for WP although I'm sure there are certain features that might be considered a bit too advanced for basic core tagging features but the overall setup provides a good example under it's own menu/sub-menus.

    I think the reason that folks are reacting as such is because in their experience with the currently available and popular tagging plugins for WP, none have been provided without some sort of UI that enables the blogger to manage their tags. It simply seemed logical that this would be included in WP 2.3.

    BTW, I've been very impressed overall with WP 2.3 betas so I mean no offense. I doing my best to answer your question.

  18. Darran
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    I suppose we have all been unclear of what kind of tag management is needed in WordPress 2.3. To put in simple, we hope WordPress would make tagging as simple as plugins like UTW and Simple Tagging.

    I think KirkM has pointed the basic functions of the kind of tag management system we are looking at. I think tag management is pretty realistic for the developers, but with regards to formatting a tag cloud, I do think we can use the generic tag cloud function for the time being. That can be hold off to the next release. What we should do right now is to ensure tagging is available to the users in the most friendly format, and typing out each tag as I have seen in Beta 2 is hardly going to convince a user to like tags.

  19. spencerp
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    "Tag Management" was brought up on the WP email lists of course, but it's not going to happen for the 2.3 release. I wish it was though, but it's not.

    Just having "tags" in the WP core itself is a huge step. I'm sure once it's released, people will start making "plugins" and "tag management" a possibility for a later 2.3 release. =)

    EDIT: Actually, someone DID bring up about doing a plugin for such on the wp-hackers or wp-testers list already. I can't find it now, but it was brought up. =)

    I think this is it.
    http://comox.textdrive.com/pipermail/wp-testers/2007-September/005029.html

  20. Darran
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    2.3 is a little unrealistic with regards to coming up with everything we would expect of a perfect tagging system. Just having tags and being able to display a tag cloud is sufficient for me until the next release. Maybe some additional documentation on the tag cloud would serve well.

  21. 2. UI for working your tag cloud (number of tags, min and max size selection, colors etc) and include user instructions thereof (short paragraph with the code(s) needed to properly display the cloud).

    This would not be in any sort of Tag Management page, because it has to do with the Presentation layer. This functionality is available as part of the wp_tag_cloud() function, so you would put this information in either the theme or as configuration parameters in the tag cloud widget. But it would definitely not be on a management screen.

    3. Same for a "Related Posts" feature and controlling thereof. IE: How many related posts listed for each single post and the code needed to display the list on a single post page.

    Again, not a management feature, as it has to do with the Presentation layer.

    I think the reason that folks are reacting as such is because in their experience with the currently available and popular tagging plugins for WP, none have been provided without some sort of UI that enables the blogger to manage their tags. It simply seemed logical that this would be included in WP 2.3.

    While I've used UTW for quite a while, I've never, ever actually used that management stuff. It's never been necessary. So I really don't know what kinds of stuff people do with it.

    That's the reason for my questions here. I don't want to see WordPress simply copy a bunch of functionality from other plugins that nobody actually uses. So I want to know what people actually want this thing to do.

    So discuss it amongst yourselves. Don't just say "X plugin has this, so we should have it too". Determine what *should* be there, and say so.

    But anything having to do with how tags are displayed on the webpage is not appropriate for a "Management" screen. Displaying things is the job of the theme or the widgets. They control that, exclusively.

    Oh, and yes, none of this "management" stuff will be in 2.3. Which might be a good thing, since it will give people a chance to say "I really need to do X with tags" and thus find the functionality that's really needed.

    What we should do right now is to ensure tagging is available to the users in the most friendly format, and typing out each tag as I have seen in Beta 2 is hardly going to convince a user to like tags.

    See, clearly we use tags differently. Because I always type in tags. It's faster and simpler than any other way. I can't actually think of any easier way to do it. I mean, do you select from a big list or something? That sounds more like categories to me. Typing in tags sort of defines what a tag is, to me. They're very specific keywords about your post. If you don't type them in, then that sort of misses the point.

    I've got thousands of tags, I don't even want to imagine having to find and select them from a huge list of them. Typing them is the easier way and it lets me make them up as I go along. You're not supposed to have to "manage" them, as I see it, as they're basically just keywords.

    But that's how I use tags. How do other people do it?

  22. spencerp
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    Yeah, after I posted that link and re-read it, I agree Otto it's not really tag management. But it was discussed on the lists some where, and I didn't look hard for the discussion. My bad.

    It would be awesome to have though! But, it will or might come soon, because I'm sure someone out there will be willing to make something for it. =D Just it's new with 2.3, and making things for new things just takes some time.

  23. KirkM
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    Perhaps as Spencerp stated, "management" is not the best word but more a UI for working the basic functions of tagging. Just as an example, STP provides a new "Tags" menu item with the following sub-menus (just for an example now)

    -Manage Tags
    -Not Tagged Articles
    -Import Tags
    -General Options
    -Cloud Options
    -Related Options

    I'm definitely not saying that the developers should attempt imitating plugins and adding all the more advanced Admin UI's provided by UTW and STP. I too type in my tags manually in the provided field in the post editor (I only have about a hundred or so) but I also have a tag cloud displayed below the write field in my case, for easy reference and there is also and "auto-fill" type menu that offers suggestions as I type (so I'm old[er]...so my memory ain't so good no more...so what?).

    My point is that although I may be a seasoned blogger and have no problem inserting and manipulating code to achieve a desired effect, the more average WP (not WP.com) blogger has little clue on how to do this and I've helped enough of them to know. And no matter how you look at it, they make up the majority of WP bloggers out there so there are times when I have to really force myself to see things from their viewpoint (it ain't easy sometimes =). It's the developers fault you know...the the more they improve upon the WP paltform and it's ease of use, the more of 'em you'll get. :D

    I'm just asking that the developers, for a future release, to consider adding a simple UI in the Admin that enables the blog owner to change basic tagging options such as adding and deleting tags at will, controlling the number of tags displayed in a cloud, colors and sizes thereof and the option to display tags and/or related posts (and the number in the list) at the end of any single post without having to go into the template code itself (Related Posts and Tag Clouds would of course have to have the required basic snippet of code inserted into the appropriate place first).

    I mentioned "Simple Tagging Plugin" as an example only of what I'm talking about as far as the Admin UI for tags is concerned and what it does (my bad for not being clearer). It's too far advanced for adding to the core in itself for sure but I and many others do use the basic functions it provides as I described above.

    Sorry for the long comment, I get awful wordy sometimes (all the time--used to write tech manuals). Bad habit of mine. Hope I was more clear this time.

  24. Darran
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    See, clearly we use tags differently. Because I always type in tags. It's faster and simpler than any other way. I can't actually think of any easier way to do it. I mean, do you select from a big list or something? That sounds more like categories to me. Typing in tags sort of defines what a tag is, to me. They're very specific keywords about your post. If you don't type them in, then that sort of misses the point.

    I've got thousands of tags, I don't even want to imagine having to find and select them from a huge list of them. Typing them is the easier way and it lets me make them up as I go along. You're not supposed to have to "manage" them, as I see it, as they're basically just keywords.

    But that's how I use tags. How do other people do it?

    The way I deal with tags, I write a post then I would type it. And as I do that, there would be a list of tags which I have tagged with showing. The problem with just typing them, you would have 2 variations of a tag with the same idea. For e.g. national service and ns, sometimes I just lose track of what I define them as.

    With regards to tag management, what we should be able to do is rename the tags, delete them ... etc, that is the kind of tag management I am talking about. But I do understand the constrains of adding so many new stuff in WordPress 2.3, I hope it will be considered in the next release.

  25. spencerp
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    Just sharing this with you all.
    http://poplarware.com/tagentryplugin.html

    I'll have to try it out myself then. =)

  26. BLT-FQX
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    tagging through xmlrpc.

  27. smaxey
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    I do use the UTW tag management features.

    I'm not a great typist, and I'm not able to easily remember whether I used the tag "Acme" or "Acme Products" for a company or called a person "Charles" or Chuck" when I tagged his name two months ago, so I like being able to select tags from the long list of previously used tags. I've used both the pulldown and the simple alpha list, and I prefer the latter. The list is long, but it easily lets me scan for "do I already have a tag for this, and how is it formatted?" and I like knowing that whatever new tags I add will be added to that already long list.

    I also use UTW's capability to set the categories as default tags on first saving an article. I have a good list of categories, and, while I don't always keep them as tags and they sometimes get moved down from first position, they are a good start.

  28. michaelcvachovec
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    Hi!
    I´ve got a german-blog site and i´ve got difficulties with my tagcloud, using wp2.3. When there is an existing tag with german-umlauts (Ü,ä,ö) the tag-search does not function, at all.

    Concerning wp as CMS: While importing tags from e.g. simple - tagging, you do import the tags from existing static pages and the search results also show the pages, but if you create a new page wp doesn´t have the ability to tag pages.

    Is there a chance to solve these problems?

    Michael

  29. rosicrux
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    Well, the import when great, all my tags seem to have migrated perfectly. The problem is, I'm now missing one of the best features of Simple Tagging - the related posts feature.

  30. Chris_K
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    rosicrux - I've been experimenting with this plugin, seems to do a good job so far: http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wordpress-23-related-posts-plugin/

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