What’s the Roadmap? (Gutenberg / Node.js)

  • bortran

    (@bortran)


    5 years, 11 months ago

    For over a decade WordPress has been a basic LAMP CMS.

    Now a sudden change to Node.js and React.js. And a Youtube-video on the WordPress channel stating that we, the developers, should just “learn the new tools and move on”.

    I’m a full stack developer, I’ve been coding in PHP since 2001. On top I became a Linux Administrator cause I needed to fill in this position, right now I’m at the level of an LPIC-2 Engineer with about 7 years of practical web hosting experience and have 2 years of experience with Cloud Platforms.

    I can do JavaScript, no problem. I also can do Python & Django. I just didn’t want to use Node or React (or even Django) as my main framework for everyday-use in web development. That is because we make mainly end-customer websites, and not web-apps.

    Node.js brings it’s own webserver, we don’t want that. If it’s a better webserver than Apache2 + nginx or not isn’t the question. It’s not the technology we want to use.

    Besides the research I did now in my xmas holidays, after a year of working 12h / day, 7 days a week, I could not find out what’s the particular plan for WordPress.

    Will WordPress ditch all of it’s PHP Framework?
    Will everyone NEED to use Node.js to make custom WordPress Websites / Themes?
    Will the Node.js webserver come into play at some point?
    Where there considerations regarding SEO?
    What’s the timeframe this all will go down?
    Is there any exit-strategy for the case that users don’t like / accept this sudden change in the underlying technology?
    Did you expect that every WordPress-PHP developer just switches to Node.js in their holidays?

    Cheers.

Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
  • ygirouard

    (@ygirouard)

    5 years, 11 months ago

    Would like to know this as well!

    Daniel Richards

    (@talldanwp)

    5 years, 11 months ago

    Hi @bortran – I can’t answer in any official capacity, I’m a dev and I haven’t been involved in any of those decisions, but I have been working on Gutenberg over the last few months.

    From what I’ve seen, node.js is only being used to provide tooling for client-side code. The runtime for node is used for things like building, running tests and linting. Then there’s NPM which is used to manage code dependencies for JavaScript in a similar way to composer in PHP. I’m not aware of instances where node is being used as a server, but I could be wrong.

    Gutenberg does embrace a lot of current JavaScript and functional programming practices for client-side development. Having said that it also depends on existing PHP code, in particular in the form of the REST API, the bootstrapping for the editor, and some of the new APIs (like dynamic blocks), so I can’t see PHP going away.

    If I had to guess, your current skills will, in my opinion, continue to be strongly valued, but if I were in your shoes it could be worth looking at picking up some JavaScript/React/Redux knowledge. The next few phases of Gutenberg will definitely see that part of the codebase growing and touching more parts of the WP experience.

    Thread Starter bortran

    (@bortran)

    5 years, 11 months ago

    Thanks for some insight, @talldanwp

    As I said, I can do JavaScript pretty well, on top I’m working with JQuery and REST on a regular basis.

    But here’s the thing: The “advertisement” for Node and React made by WordPress claims that things would be way easier for programmers, I can’t see how that’s supposed to be true. Node and React introduce an amount of overhead I haven’t seen in a while. Let alone the need to compile* and pack stuff each and every time opposed to modifying a few lines of PHP within the WordPress Editor.

    And the promise that “beginners just have to learn a bit JavaScript”, pop open a text editor and code away with Node and React is purely made up fantasy. That’s not how any of this works. These frameworks* are complex and take a very long time to understand in it’s whole, to be able to make sense of it.

    Besides: No one of us asked for that. If we wanted to use Node, React, Django or whatnot we could have done so. Please forward my suggestion that the Node-lovers in the team make their own WordPress. I already suggested the name WordNode. It’s catchy.
    If you asked me on what other language to bring into WordPress I would have said Python. JavaScript is horrible for serverside code.

    Can you tell me more on what’s the roadmap? I’ve read up next there’s the widget area going to be removed, meaning it will be brought into Gutenberg. That makes again no sense to me, cause widgets / sidebars are global settings and I cannot see how a site-wide sidebar should make it’s way into a single post or page.

    (*speaking in common language)

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 11 months ago by bortran.
    Daniel Richards

    (@talldanwp)

    5 years, 11 months ago

    > Can you tell me more on what’s the roadmap?

    I only know what’s available in public channels, you’ve probably read it already:

    9 Projects for 2019

    > I’ve read up next there’s the widget area going to be removed

    That’s not my interpretation. There is a plan to introduce blocks in the widget area—that makes sense to me, blocks are not dissimilar to the concept of widgets, but will eventually be useable in a wider range of contexts. I’m sure it’ll be an evolution, but there are some concepts shared publicly:

    Gutenberg Phase 2

    gkahr78

    (@gkahr78)

    5 years, 10 months ago

    Now a sudden change to Node.js and React.js. And a Youtube-video on the WordPress channel stating that we, the developers, should just “learn the new tools and move on”.

    I found that rather condescending. And after entirely negative client feedback regarding Gutenberg we moved on. We already started test rollouts of classicpress.

    Thread Starter bortran

    (@bortran)

    5 years, 10 months ago

    @gkahr78 not sure what you call “condescending”, please elaborate.

    Well classicpress has been around for a while. I sincerely hope it will be “the” fork. But atm I find it too early to put my client’s sites all on that one card. I definitely hope there will be an official rollback with Gutenberg and furthermore Node.

    gkahr78

    (@gkahr78)

    5 years, 10 months ago

    @gkahr78 not sure what you call “condescending”, please elaborate.

    You mentioned the video on the wordpress channel where it was said that we as developers have to move on and adapt. That for me was condescending because it implied that they know better and we are pretty much too dumb to understand.

    But atm I find it too early to put my client’s sites all on that one card. I definitely hope there will be an official rollback with Gutenberg and furthermore Node.

    I do not have high hopes of Gutenberg going away. I joined the conversation here in the forums shortly after Gutenberg was released. And criticism was bascically answered in the range of “deal with it” and “learn to adapt”. There is no discussion because they genuinely believe in Gutenberg.

    You know, from a developer point of view who wants to innovate I totally get them. But I have to deal with real users that left CMS that already had this type of layout block for the simplicity of WordPress.

    Thread Starter bortran

    (@bortran)

    5 years, 10 months ago

    @gkahr78 thanks for the more detailed explanation. We’re on the same page here. I myself do have to learn new tools everyday. But how or why should someone else decide what these tools had to be? They don’t know the problems I need to solve.

    I chose WordPress for a number of reasons, one being that it’s a PHP framework. I could have chosen a Node-, JavaScript or any other framework or language. This developer somewhat implied that us peasants blindly overlook what great tools are out there. A bit like baptizing. This makes no sense, there were over 1000 proogramming languages out there last time I checked. And countless frameworks for each. I know a lot of them, have major programming experience in 6 and minor in some more.

    WP-Devs need to learn Kobol, Go and BF if you ask me. And write the new API in Assembly, it will run 4500% faster.

    I also don’t get this “deal with it” attitude. No, why would we? We’re more. We made you successful. We don’t want this. They’ll learn to adapt. 😉

Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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