Title: To: Widget/Plugin programmers
Last modified: August 18, 2016

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# To: Widget/Plugin programmers

 *  [ladydelaluna](https://wordpress.org/support/users/ladydelaluna/)
 * (@ladydelaluna)
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/)
 * I just wanted to basically “state my case” here to all of you nifty programmer
   types that like to dabble in creating plugins and widgets and so on.
 * After a number of discussions, it’s easy to see that “widgets” has a divided 
   audience. Some people love them, others want nothing to do with them (like myself).
   There’s a fairly even balance here with that… and while they may be great for“
   newbies” – there are a lot of us “old timers” who have been using wordpress since
   1.2 and really just like things the way they are in terms of using plugins.
 * Lately we’ve been seeing this insurgence of “widget plugins” – that do some pretty
   fantastic things, however they ONLY work with widgets (which means the theme 
   used has to be widget compatible as well).
 * I guess I’d like to make a request that if at all possible, when releasing a 
   plugin that ONLY works with widgets, for you all to consider the fact that non-
   widget users might enjoy the same results, and if at all possible, you could 
   release both a widget and non-widget version when you do your release.
 * Believe me, if I weren’t so busy with all the other things I’m working on, I’d
   try to learn programming to a deeper level (I’m a designer, WP user, and an SEO
   person – don’t claim to come close to having the knowledge of a REAL programmer!)
   so that I could create plugins left and right… but it’s just not possible for
   me right now, and I’m sure many others feel this way as well.
 * It’s just a thought. It would really stink if the development of widgets created
   a “continental divide” between people, because WP is a fantastic open source 
   piece of art – and it should be able to be equally enjoyed by everyone, regardless
   of their preferences.
 * (Even if you personally happen to think that Monet’s work sucks the bag compared
   to Warhol, you still have to respect it… even though it’s older and less “modern”.
   It still holds value, just like non-widgetized WP does!)
 * Just my $.02 – after seeing all these “widget only” plugins popping up that have
   no “non widget” counterparts… 🙂

Viewing 14 replies - 16 through 29 (of 29 total)

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 *  [jennmiller](https://wordpress.org/support/users/jennmiller/)
 * (@jennmiller)
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381727)
 * Well, Otto, I’m glad you’re writing widgets. Keep at it. Never in a million years
   would I pay you for anything. This was a simple request to continue plugin development,
   not a personal attack on your widgets. If you want to reach only a portion of
   users, that’s absolutely your choice. I don’t see where “tough luck” needs to
   be addressed.
 *  [vkaryl](https://wordpress.org/support/users/vkaryl/)
 * (@vkaryl)
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381733)
 * Wow. I don’t think any of us were attacking any specific individual at all.
 * I thought we were simply stating personal opinions and requesting that the plugin
   folks consider not dropping us completely in favor of widgets….
 * Otto, if you had another impression, I apologize, but then I haven’t a clue who
   you are or what widgets you’ve written – or even that you wrote widgets at all….
 *  Thread Starter [ladydelaluna](https://wordpress.org/support/users/ladydelaluna/)
 * (@ladydelaluna)
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381754)
 * *sigh*
 * I wasn’t attacking anyone for creating widget-only plugins. I wasn’t attacking
   anyone individually or anything like that. I’m not sure how this thread got hijacked
   the way it did either. But that’s another story.
 * vkaryl and jennmiller – you guys said it right. it’s not that i begrudge anyone
   the right to create or use widgets/widget plugins. obviously, if there are widgets
   in use, there will always be a demand for widget-based plugins. however as vkaryl
   put it, this was simply a reminder that non-widget users might like to enjoy 
   some of the same results without having to switch to widgets to get them… and
   to quote my own self (as you did, Otto): “I’d like to make a request that if 
   at all possible, when releasing a plugin that ONLY works with widgets, for you
   all to consider the fact that non-widget users might enjoy the same results, 
   and if at all possible, you could release both a widget and non-widget version
   when you do your release.”
 * I don’t see anywhere in there (or in the entire post either) that I came across
   as offensive or in “attack mode”… in fact, TWICE i said “if at all possible”.
   Where is that a demand? Where in that can you find a negative or offensive tone?
   Did someone pee in your cereal this morning? It wasn’t me… I’m sure.
 * And in agreement with jennmiller – I’m not going to pay you just because you 
   feel the need to take a “tough luck” attitude about it. I didn’t pay for wordpress,
   why should I pay you? None of the other non-widget programmers demand money from
   me… why should you?
 * You go on writing your widget only plugins, Otto – but don’t expect me to sit
   here and change MY preferences just because YOU don’t feel like being “bored”.
   Where was this thread directed at YOU or anyone specific anyway? It was simply
   a reminder to plugin developers in general that not everyone’s on the widget 
   bandwagon… and some of us won’t ever be.
 * One more thing. You said, “Old-style plugins where the user still has to go in
   and hack PHP templates are not. Those form of plugins are not difficult to write,
   but they’re also kind boring and uninteresting. The only people that will use
   them are other programmers, because they generally require template hacking to
   make them work.”
 * To this day, I’ve yet to have to “hack” any non-widget plugin I’ve used. I download
   it, install it, activate it, and maybe make a guided (by the plugin author) customization(
   I’m referring here to things like flashfader and amm). But pretty much any and
   every plugin I’ve ever used works properly for me “out of the box”. Oh, and I’m
   not a programmer, as I’ve stated before – so your line about “the only people
   who will ever use them are other programmers” is beyond the realm of reality.
   It’s simply not even close to truth.
 * “HTML/PHP… that’s sorta old hat.” – the web standards movement would stand to
   disagree with you on that one i think… considering that HTML is where everything
   began, and without PHP you wouldn’t even HAVE wordpress to begin with.
 *  Moderator [Samuel Wood (Otto)](https://wordpress.org/support/users/otto42/)
 * (@otto42)
 * WordPress.org Admin
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381760)
 * Aristophanes: Caching is built in already. It’ll only request the RSS feed once
   per hour by default.
 * Everybody else: I didn’t think I was being attacked directly or that there was
   any sort of “attack” at all. I’m sorry if I gave anyone that impression. I was
   really just calling it as I saw it. Consider that text based communication is
   poor at conveying emotions. 🙂
 * There seems to be a sort of divide here between those who like widgets and those
   who don’t. I mean, yes, I *could* make non-widget versions of the things I made
   widgets for. However, I’m really not interested in doing so. That’s really all
   I was trying to say. The original post did seem to be, well, a bit demanding,
   and I was just responding to that. ladydeluna, especially reading your other 
   posts, you seem very hostile towards widgets in general, complaining when people
   suggest widget-based plugins to accomplish tasks you’re asking about.
 * Look, I’m aware that some people don’t like widgets and that’s fine with me. 
   But to go and rail at widget developers, even in general, that they’re not making
   non-widget versions… it seems very uncalled for, IMO.
 * I mean, if you find a widget that you want to be a non-widget, then why not ask
   the developer to help you out in a nice way, instead of blasting on the entire
   concept of widgets in general? If somebody came to me and said “hey, how could
   I use the Google Calendar widget without having widgets?” then I might not actually
   write the thing, but I’d certainly try to help them out by giving them instructions
   on how to go about doing it. But having a general gripey attitude gets no points
   from me, if you see what I’m talking about.
 * ladydeluna: “maybe make a guided customization”… I hate to tell you this, but
   you are a programmer. Editing a template is programming. It’s PHP programming,
   but it is programming nevertheless.
 *  Thread Starter [ladydelaluna](https://wordpress.org/support/users/ladydelaluna/)
 * (@ladydelaluna)
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381764)
 * “complaining when people suggest widget-based plugins to accomplish tasks you’re
   asking about.” – what might you suggest i say when i ask about a plugin for something
   on a non-widget site and i get an answer for a widget based plugin? should i 
   respond with “great idea! i’ll do that!” even though i have no intent to do it,
   and will be left where i began, without the plugin? you’re making NO sense here,
   otto.
 * once again, you completely misread my original post, and i think it boils down
   to the fact that YOU are on the defensive about your decision to use widgets.
   YOU happen to think they’re the greatest thing since sliced bread, and are currently
   frustrated with the fact that you will neither convince me, or a few others who
   have posted here, to agree with you.
 * “instead of blasting on the entire concept of widgets in general” – again, i 
   don’t see where i, nor anyone else did that. we simply stated that we have no
   desire to use them. in fact, looking back at my original post, i see that i stated“
   WP is a fantastic open source piece of art – and it should be able to be equally
   enjoyed by everyone” wouldn’t “everyone” INCLUDE widget users? i think it would,
   unless your definition of “everyone” is different than mine.
 * “The original post did seem to be, well, a bit demanding” – HOW does “if at all
   possible…” come across as demanding? HOW?!?!?!!?
 * Not for nothing, Otto – but YOU have made this thread hostile. Not I, and certainly
   not those who chimed in elsewhere. YOU did it. Pat yourself on the back for that
   one… and thanks for nothing.
 * I thought this could be an intelligent, adult conversation – apparantly not everyone
   can handle those.
 *  [jwurster](https://wordpress.org/support/users/jwurster/)
 * (@jwurster)
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381765)
 * Having decided to read this post because I am a programmer by profession, I was
   kind of surprised at the misinterpretation of what Lady of the Moon (if I remember
   my Spanish correctly) said. I thought it a simple request. And it was just that–
   a request. Sometimes, I think we take ourselves way too seriously.
 * So, I will make the same request. If at all possible, please design your new 
   widget/plugin to work for the greatest audience possible. Since I don’t know 
   anything about widget technology, I guess I should study up on it (although I’m
   still struggling with regular plugin development). I applaud all widget/plugin
   developers for doing a geat job in helping us use WP in many, many divergent 
   ways.
 * Maybe what we need is some volunteers to help convert widgets to plugins (if 
   that is even feasible). If I were a plugin/widget developer, I would certainly
   like to make it as flexible and useful for as many users as possible.
 *  Moderator [Samuel Wood (Otto)](https://wordpress.org/support/users/otto42/)
 * (@otto42)
 * WordPress.org Admin
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381768)
 * Oh for crying out…
 * > what might you suggest i say when i ask about a plugin for something on a non-
   > widget site and i get an answer for a widget based plugin? should i respond
   > with “great idea! i’ll do that!” even though i have no intent to do it, and
   > will be left where i began, without the plugin?
 * Maybe you should email the author of the plugin and ask him if there’s a non-
   widget version available, or if he can help you in some way, instead of shooting
   the messenger.
 * > once again, you completely misread my original post
 * You know, after your latest post above, no, I don’t think I did.
 * > and i think it boils down to the fact that YOU are on the defensive about your
   > decision to use widgets.
 * No, what I’m defensive about is those of us who suggest solutions to your problems
   and then having you go off on people when they are just trying to help. I’ve 
   seen you do it at least three times now in other threads.
 * > YOU happen to think they’re the greatest thing since sliced bread, and are 
   > currently frustrated with the fact that you will neither convince me, or a 
   > few others who have posted here, to agree with you.
 * I don’t care to convince you. Really. I do care when you drive away people for
   trying to be helpful.
 * > again, i don’t see where i, nor anyone else did that. we simply stated that
   > we have no desire to use them.
 * You’ve now done it twice in this thread and at least three times in other threads.
 * > “The original post did seem to be, well, a bit demanding” – HOW does “if at
   > all possible…” come across as demanding? HOW?!?!?!!?
 * Just because you add “if at all possible” does not make your post any less demanding.
 * You’re asking that people who do this sort of thing, for free, take their time
   to think about you and your needs, also for free, and for no benefit to themselves.
   My comments about paying somebody were intended to make you realize that people
   develop this stuff out of the goodness of their hearts, and that you really have
   no right to ask for anything whatsoever. So when you cop an attitude of “I’m 
   getting left out here because I don’t like widgets, why won’t people do this 
   stuff for me!”, then yes, I call that demanding. “If at all possible” is nonsensical.
   Of course it’s possible. But that doesn’t mean I or anybody else has to do it
   just because it’s possible.
 * You attract more flies with honey than with vinegar, that’s my point.
 * > Not for nothing, Otto – but YOU have made this thread hostile. Not I, and certainly
   > not those who chimed in elsewhere. YOU did it. Pat yourself on the back for
   > that one… and thanks for nothing.
 * Bunk. You started out being whiney and demanding and I called you on it.
 * > I thought this could be an intelligent, adult conversation – apparantly not
   > everyone can handle those.
 * I can handle those just fine, actually. I even tried to get the thread back on
   topic above, and you just had to take it a step further and prove how hostile
   you really are. Good job.
 * BTW, I’d be happy to help anybody convert any widgets they like into non-widgets.
   As long as you ask nicely, that is. 🙂
 *  Thread Starter [ladydelaluna](https://wordpress.org/support/users/ladydelaluna/)
 * (@ladydelaluna)
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381769)
 * Yeah. And pay you, right? Check the forum rules about offering your “services”
   here in the forums, Otto. (And don’t turn now and say it’s for free – your original
   post about your “reasonable rates” is uneditable now.)
 * You have no idea what you’re talking about, and you’ve decided that you’re going
   to displace a persona on me, someone you don’t know at ALL.
 * How dare you come in here and assume that what I said, in the way I said it, 
   meant anything else other than what was written!? YOU might live your life that
   way, sugar coating your way through lies or deceit, however the whole world doesn’t
   work like you. When I say something, I mean it. And I mean it in only the way
   it’s written, with the words I’ve used. You’ve been here two weeks and have completely
   misunderstood me – the others who agreed with me, have seen me here almost daily
   for over 6 months now. Guess who’s WRONG?
 * I’m so tired of this. I made a simple statement, a point of view (that must I
   remind you, was welcomed by other people who feel the same way I do, and did 
   NOT misinterpret what I said), and the ONLY person doing the bashing is YOU, 
   Otto. Grow the hell up and get over yourself. Go make your damn widget plugins
   and leave it alone.
 * I’m done.
 * EDIT: Thank you jwurster – for being one of the majority who really understood
   my “tone” and intention here. I appreciate it.
 *  Moderator [Samuel Wood (Otto)](https://wordpress.org/support/users/otto42/)
 * (@otto42)
 * WordPress.org Admin
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381770)
 * > Yeah. And pay you, right? Check the forum rules about offering your “services”
   > here in the forums, Otto. (And don’t turn now and say it’s for free – your 
   > original post about your “reasonable rates” is uneditable now.)
 * Clearly you are not actually reading my posts. I never asked for any payment 
   of any kind.
 * > You have no idea what you’re talking about, and you’ve decided that you’re 
   > going to displace a persona on me, someone you don’t know at ALL.
 * All I know about you is what you post. But what you are posting seems to come
   across very clearly, to me.
 * > How dare you come in here and assume that what I said, in the way I said it,
   > meant anything else other than what was written!?
 * I did no such thing. I read what you wrote and went based entirely on what it
   said. If you think that I’m getting the wrong impression, perhaps you should 
   write more clearly.
 * > YOU might live your life that way, sugar coating your way through lies or deceit,
   > however the whole world doesn’t work like you. When I say something, I mean
   > it. And I mean it in only the way it’s written, with the words I’ve used.
 * Then my impressions are correct?
 * > I’m so tired of this. I made a simple statement, a point of view (that must
   > I remind you, was welcomed by other people who feel the same way I do, and 
   > did NOT misinterpret what I said), and the ONLY person doing the bashing is
   > YOU, Otto. Grow the hell up and get over yourself. Go make your damn widget
   > plugins and leave it alone.
 * I’ll do just that. Might I also suggest that you take your own advice and stop
   complaining when people try to help but it’s not the specific help you’re looking
   for?
 * > I’m done.
 * Good.
 *  Thread Starter [ladydelaluna](https://wordpress.org/support/users/ladydelaluna/)
 * (@ladydelaluna)
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381771)
 * Okay Mr. I’ve-Been-Here-For-Two-Weeks-So-I-Know-Everything-About-You…
 * whatever you want to think about me is FINE. go ahead and displace your anger
   on me if it makes you feel better.
 * go get some sleep, otto – i think your “brilliant” work with widgets has made
   you overly cranky, you GENIUS!
 * reminder: you said “BTW, my prices are very reasonable, so if you’re interested
   in a custom plugin, email me. :)” that’s offering a service for money, and completely
   against forum rules.
 *  Moderator [Samuel Wood (Otto)](https://wordpress.org/support/users/otto42/)
 * (@otto42)
 * WordPress.org Admin
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381772)
 * I thought you were done?
 * > Okay Mr. I’ve-Been-Here-For-Two-Weeks-So-I-Know-Everything-About-You…
 * Nice, but I’m not sure what it has to do with anything. Like I said before, all
   I know about you is what you post.
 * > whatever you want to think about me is FINE. go ahead and displace your anger
   > on me if it makes you feel better.
 * Now who’s reading things that are not there? I’m not angry. I’m only vaguely 
   amused, at best.
 * > go get some sleep, otto – i think your “brilliant” work with widgets has made
   > you overly cranky, you GENIUS!
 * Are you kidding me? The widgets I’ve made are trivial hacks, at best. Genius 
   they are most certainly not.
 * > reminder: you said “BTW, my prices are very reasonable, so if you’re interested
   > in a custom plugin, email me. :)” that’s offering a service for money, and 
   > completely against forum rules.
 * Like I already stated above but which you clearly did not read: “My comments 
   about paying somebody were intended to make you realize that people develop this
   stuff out of the goodness of their hearts, and that you really have no right 
   to ask for anything whatsoever.” I don’t actually have a price list. 🙂
 *  Thread Starter [ladydelaluna](https://wordpress.org/support/users/ladydelaluna/)
 * (@ladydelaluna)
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381774)
 * and i don’t actually care.
    buh-bye otto. take your bashing elsewhere please.
 *  Moderator [Samuel Wood (Otto)](https://wordpress.org/support/users/otto42/)
 * (@otto42)
 * WordPress.org Admin
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381775)
 * Mods, could this thread be moderated or closed or something? I’ve tried to be
   as polite as I can, but this is getting ridiculous.
 *  [ifelse](https://wordpress.org/support/users/ifelse/)
 * (@ifelse)
 * [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381776)
 * This sort of discussion really belong on your own blogs; the WP forum is for 
   support issues.
 * This discussion is neither helpful nor productive and is heading into flamewar
   territory which is why I’m closing the thread.

Viewing 14 replies - 16 through 29 (of 29 total)

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The topic ‘To: Widget/Plugin programmers’ is closed to new replies.

## Tags

 * [developers](https://wordpress.org/support/topic-tag/developers/)
 * [widgets](https://wordpress.org/support/topic-tag/widgets/)

 * 29 replies
 * 10 participants
 * Last reply from: [ifelse](https://wordpress.org/support/users/ifelse/)
 * Last activity: [20 years ago](https://wordpress.org/support/topic/to-widgetplugin-programmers/page/2/#post-381776)
 * Status: not a support question

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