Probably an underscore between the words would help, but that’s not the point. Support here needs to get stronger. Hire people to answer forum questions, switch to another site search service, do a pagan support ritual… whatever.
I know it’s a little ‘apples to oranges’ but go over to phpBB support forums. Questions are answered quickly and sometimes in great verbosity. And it’s also an open-source, “shoestring” operation.
There are way too many unanswered, pleading threads here.
I’ve been meaning to write something about this for a long time, but when I get the downright absurd no results of a search for the loop — possibly the most important function in the WordPress universe — it’s time.
I don’t pay for support at phpBB, and it’s far more robust. How do they manage?
Maybe WordPress could use some of its tens of millions of dollars to improve support?
My answer is yes, but what does it matter?
Are you saying it’s either paid-and-good support or unpaid-and-mediocre? That’s false dilemma, and phpBB proves it.
Are you saying it’s either paid-and-good support or unpaid-and-mediocre?
No, just trying to determine if I should point you to solutions that might require monies:
I’m talking about WordPress support, not finding out how to use the loop. You’re dodging the issue.
Without offending you…my thoughts seriously…it is a waste of time complaining here. Won’t solve anything.
Support for most free software, opensource or not, is mostly dependant on the userbase.
phpBB is more mature, consequently phpBB has always had more users than wordpress at any given time. Also, phpBB has always enjoyed a younger audience that thrives on making changes to the code and sharing those changes. phpBB has lots of geek users.
The fact is, that there are more information takers than information givers on this site. Generally speaking, people come here, ask questions, get their answers, than leave. And they dont return until they have another question.
Look at your own profile.
They dont want to mess with code, they want to blog. Youre talking about people that have, in some cases, brand new web sites to tend to. They dont have time, or energy to hang out here.
Ironically, you being a user, are casting swords at yourself.
As for wordpress aka Matt paying people to answer support questions. Why would he do that? Where is the reward, for him, as you see it? I cant find one, so Im honestly curious.
@intellivision: I just searched for “the loop” ticking the same box that you ticked (Documentation), and I got 476 results.
The 1st is:
The 2nd is:
Maybe it was just a temporary glitch, or maybe the search works erratically. I have no idea… 🙂
Spending some of those millions on support would make the user base stronger. Happy users tend to — you know — evangelize.
The loop search is working now… but it must have been down days ago when I did my search. I’m not making that screenshot up.
This is Just Another Internet Argument. I’m not going to change your minds and you’re not going to change mine. But to me things don’t add up if you’re sitting on a pile of money. If Automattic was broke it’s completely sensical. But it’s a whole new ballgame when you’ve got money.
I just did another search (Google) — unrelated to my point here — for “query_posts reset” http://wordpress.org/support/topic/190962?replies=1 and the first result was another orphan support question from nine months ago.
I have enough experience to move through my work without depending on this forum entirely, but I can only imagine the reputation carnage all those users have sowed.
To be fair, I have to give credit where it’s due: wordpress.tv is brilliant, and I send my clients there to learn. And of course the software itself is outstanding. I don’t want you guys to think I’m only a complainer. And Whoo and Michael: I’ve seen many posts by you guys helping others. Thank you.
Please don’t feel like I’m saying you’re not doing enough.
Please don’t feel like I’m saying you’re not doing enough.
I did know you were NOT saying that. Thanks.
I would like to chime in and say that I have observed similarly to what whooami posted about the userbase of WP vs the userbase of phpBB.
phpBB is a bulletin board/forum system and its whole purpose is to cater to groups and communities. It’s amazing what people can do with phpBB and other BB systems from setting up role-playing communities to support forums to entire websites.
WP, on the other hand, is a more single user-centric application and it seems that the greater majority of users utilize WP to set up personal or business blog sites and single-user websites.
When you compare phpBB to WP in this way, you can see how phpBB’s support system might be stronger if only because of the nature of phpBB and the types of people and types of projects it attracts.
Community vs single-user.
Share vs keep to oneself.
In my opinion, the more personalized single-user nature of WP invokes possessiveness over code and design which can translate over to less willingness to offer support from some users because there is fear of other users copying what they do.
This is an issue I have noticed specifically in the design and front-end department of web development (and WP falls into this category on a lot of levels, especially when talking about theming), but phpBB and other similar systems seem to escape this mentality more due to the community nature of the application itself.
Also, the solitary non-community nature of the WP application in itself means that a lot of people come in, get help, maybe offer some help, and when their WP project is done with, leave.
I’ve used WP for a few years now and I admit to being guilty of coming and going. Not because I don’t want to stay and help, but simply because once a WP project is finished, it is usually finished for good and my attention is being focused elsewhere due to a change in project.
With all that said, I feel that it is a bit unfair to compare phpBB to WP in terms of support.
Something I DO feel that contributes to a potential issue with WP support (lots of people posting the same support questions/issues and sometimes getting slower answers because it’s an old repeated question, for example), however, is that I think a lot of users install WP with hopes to theme on their own… only to find out LATER that in order to successfully theme WP, it is almost a requirement that they have an extensive knowledge of XHTML and CSS and can at least read php.
I have seen before that a lot of users show up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed – all eager to learn how to theme WP – and end up leaving looking like they were hunted by bloodhounds because they realize that without extensive knowledge, they can’t make WP do what they want it to do or look how they want it to look.
It’s a shame for that to happen, I think, because WP is a wonderfully flexible application/platform to work off of and presents to the user a canvas that allows the user full control of both content publishing and content presentation while being completely usable with the majority of features intact upon first install.
Personally speaking, I have seen some great support in the forums for WP, but if there was one thing I had to address, it would be the issue I described above.
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