Support » Plugin: Gutenberg » So many issues with Gutenberg right off the start

  • Resolved ironfish2

    (@ironfish2)


    Ok so based on the prompt in WP 4.9.8 to install Gutenberg, I did install it – Version 3.4.0.

    Then I started a new post and immediately experienced this:

    First off the popup:

    Welcome to the wonderful world of blocks! Click the “+” (“Add block”) button to add a new block. There are blocks available for all kind of content: you can insert text, headings, images, lists, and lots more!

    1)
    I closed this (I will refer to it later in this post) and then hovered of the title area and selected it. I typed in some text for the title.

    Since this title area is selected, I then clicked Block in the right menu.

    It says:

    No block selected.

    I was very confused about this because I DID select a block – in this case the one that contains the title…..

    I thought it was a bug in G.

    Then I realized – the devs do not consider the title to be a block.

    Yet from the user’s point of view, it IS a block. It LOOKS just like any other block – it is a rectangle, with a blue border, that you type text into – just like most other blocks!!

    How could you make the title look like a block and then not call it a block????

    If it it not called a block, then what is it now called? Cant call it the title “block” because the UI says “no block selected”.

    If I am educating users on the use of Gutenberg, what shall I call it? The nameless thingy that looks just like a block but when selected is labeled to not be a block by Gutenberg, the field at the top of the page????

    Moreover, unlike the other blocks, the title block does not have a descriptor in the top right corner of the blue border – eg the paragraph block has a descriptor called “Paragraph” in the top right corner of the blue border….

    It seems all blocks have a descriptor but lets not provide one for the title field – whether you guys want to think of it as a block or not, you could have the descriptor there.

    It would be much better to call it a block, and then in the right menu not say “No block selected” but instead say “Title block” and say “This block has no settings or properties.

    2)
    Then below the Title area? (cant call it a block i guess) I put in a paragraph block.

    THEN NO MATTER WHAT I DO ,WHERE I CLICK OR WHERE I HOVER, I CANNOT ADD ANOTHER BLOCK!!! A + SIGN DOES NOT APPEAR!!!!

    Which bring me back to my initial mention of the popup:

    Welcome to the wonderful world of blocks! Click the “+” (“Add block”) button to add a new block. There are blocks available for all kind of content: you can insert text, headings, images, lists, and lots more!

    NOPE – that is not true!! There is no + button!!!!!! Even when you have only added a single BLOCK!!!!

    I read somewhere a while ago that if the last block is a paragraph then no + button will be shown. I saw this on a tweet from ACF with the word “What?” I agree. I cannot for the life of me understand the thinking behind Gutenberg, it’s design and it being forced into WP.

    I then ran into other issues. But the above TWO are my FIRST IMPRESSIONS of Gutenberg.

    But I am sorry to be so dramatic but it is the only way I can express how I feel:

    I am flabbergasted, jaw dropped, stunned, gob smacked, that this plugin could be released like this, with these basic issues. Moreover, that anyone would ever think of putting this into core in any similar condition that the plugin is now in.

    It makes me wonder what has happened at wp.org.

    • This topic was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by ironfish2.
Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
  • Moderator Samuel Wood (Otto)

    (@otto42)

    WordPress.org Admin

    NOPE – that is not true!! There is no + button!!!!!! Even when you have only added a single BLOCK!!!!

    The + in a circle is always in the same place, which is the upper left corner of the page itself.

    The initial starting + symbol that appears below the title appears there when you have no content. It’s there to get you started by adding the first block to the document. After you have added that block, it doesn’t appear again.

    I agree that the terminology is somewhat confusing, but once you know that the “Add Block” button is always at the top left, just under the admin bar, just to the right of the left hand side bar, then it makes a bit more sense.

    Just to the right of the word Dashboard.

    Moderator Marius L. J.

    (@clorith)

    There should also be a “Add new” button if you hover the bottom or top border of a block.

    There’s actually still work ongoing to make these inserters better, as I agree it’s not always obvious how to access them. The one Otto mentioned is always fixed in that same location though, you’ll also automatically get a new paragraph block just by writing and using the return-key on your keyboard.

    As for the title area, I agree that it feels like a block even if it isn’t one. We could probably add some helpful text to the block area when it’s selected explaining that it is the title of your post, good thought there!

    Hi Samuel and Marius thanks for your quick responses 🙂

    Re the + Add block button:

    The initial starting + symbol that appears below the title appears there when you have no content. It’s there to get you started by adding the first block to the document. After you have added that block, it doesn’t appear again.

    @otto42:
    IMHO as an educator with 30+ years experience, when you have a popup that says use THIS + button to add a block AND you place that popup right next to the + button that appears by a new block, you are teaching people to use that particular + button to add a block and NOT the one at the top of the page.

    So it is then reasonable after you have just taught a new user to use that use that particular + button, to NOT take it away. It is unreasonable to take it away, AND NOT explain why you have taken it away.

    Ie it does not make sense to tell a user to use that + button to add a block, and then think it is ok to take it away, and not tell the user why you have taken it away.

    To the user, a button that was there a second ago has now disapeared without it being intuitively obvious as to why, without being explained why it is gone – so to a new user it has just gone “poof”.

    IMHO that is like teaching a new user in Microsoft Word to go to File > New to create their first document, and then secretly removing the File > New menu item and not telling them you have done so or why. And now expecting them to find a different way to add a 2nd new document. And ignoring the fact that you have just created a negative and frustrating experience with the product when the user experiences seeing that the File > New menu item, the one they have been told to use, has disappeared…

    Furthermore, when you point out the + button in a new block area, a new user may not even be aware as yet of the + button at the top of the page.

    The second + add button at the top of the page could be assumed to be eg Add a post/page, not add a block, especially when you are presenting TWO + buttons initially. Ie why would you present TWO + add block buttons in close proximity to each other that do the same thing. If you have 2 buttons close by one can assume they have different functions, why else would you put two together so close by?

    Yes the + at the top of the page has a Tooltip but will a new user a) be aware of the + button when you are pointing them to the other one, and if a new user is aware of the + at the top of the page, will they always automatically know to hover over it to learn what its function is?

    Of course the other question that begs to be asked is this:

    If the + button next to a new block is removed after inserting the first block, and you have say 20 blocks, are you going to make users scroll up to the top of the page each time to insert a new block? Makes no sense.

    It makes more sense to remove the + Add block button at the top of the page….

    Furthermore as Marius says:

    There should also be a “Add new” button if you hover the bottom or top border of a block.

    I had this experience in using previous versions of G – I did notice always a + button when hovering around a block so it is reasonable to expect it to be there for all new blocks, not just the first one.

    Why was this removed?

    Re the Title block/area/field whatever it may be called:

    Thank you for your understanding of this Marius. All this time wp has touted G as being blocks blocks blocks and more blocks and then the first field (Title) that a new user would fill in is not called a block and looks nameless to me – if Title field has been selected then G says what has NOT has been selected, ie a block has not been selected, yet the user has selected something ….this just does not make sense. Better to explain to the user what has been selected….

    That leaves what I said earlier:

    I read somewhere a while ago that if the last block is a paragraph then no + button will be shown. I saw this on a tweet from ACF with the word “What?” I agree.

    Is this still true?? I guess you want the last block to always be a paragraph – that would be the reason to not show a + button if the last block is a paragraph BUT this is IMHO NOT the way to enforce the last block to always be a paragraph..

    Thank you both for your consideration of my feedback…..

    PS I do think that this plugin is WAY to early to have been released to the general public – it should have been shown to test or focus groups, it needs a huge amount of work – esp in user experience, UI, workflow, etc – it was far too early to release a “try G” to millions and millions of users….

    I dont see this being fair to developers like yourselves who now have to deal with responding to millions of users, as opposed to hundreds in focus groups….

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by James Huff.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Steve Stern.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by ironfish2.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by ironfish2.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by ironfish2.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by ironfish2.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by ironfish2.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by ironfish2.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Samuel Wood (Otto). Reason: Fix username so poor samuel doesn't keep getting pinged
    Moderator Samuel Wood (Otto)

    (@otto42)

    WordPress.org Admin

    PS I do think that this plugin is WAY to early to have been released to the general public – it should have been shown to test or focus groups, it needs a huge amount of work – esp in user experience, UI, workflow, etc – it was far too early to release a “try G” to millions and millions of users….

    Just an FYI, it has been pushed back and focus group tested for over a year now. It was going to be released a year ago, and it was determined that more testing and adjustments were needed.

    This is ready. Really. I believe in it now. I didn’t last year, but now, after seeing people use it and create neat things? Yeah. It’s good. It’s in the minor adjustment phase. Perfectly normal to release it as an optional “try-it-now” thing. So, you may think otherwise, but I’ve been watching it for going on 2 years, and no, it’s good man. Just saying.

    Also, it’s @otto42, not samuel. The usernames are right there, with an @ beside them. You don’t need to guess and accidentally ping somebody else’s email. 🙂

    @otto42
    Thanks for your reply and explaining more about the product develpment process that G has gone thru.
    I wasn’t aware it had already gone thru some focus groups.
    I think that product development can be in different ways, there are different methodologies. I see a strong difference in the way I would do it (Having done it many times in my career) and the way it was seemingly done with G.
    For that reason I will have to respectfully disagree with you that the product was ready for a Try it release.
    Sorry that I did not use @otto42 – I was not aware that I would be accidentally pinging someone – I will use proper usernames from now on…

    Moderator Samuel Wood (Otto)

    (@otto42)

    WordPress.org Admin

    To be honest, I don’t know about “focus groups” as such, but I know that it has undergone extensive user testing and trials. This isn’t like a new thing, the plugin has been in the directory for 14 months now, and the original version was developed over the course of a year before that. So, it’s been in the works for nearly two years, we’ve seen demos and user experience testing at WordCamps, and lots of other stuff to that end.

    So yeah, I do think it’s more than ready to present to the public and get more eyeballs on it and more users trying it out. The callout was a necessary thing to do before a core merge. I would have done the callout a few months ago, really, but they wanted to delay, so it was delayed.

    @otto42

    Fair enough 🙂

    Just to reiterate, I dont mean to criticize anyting – It is more that a “Try it” release at this time I dont see this being fair to developers like yourselves who now have to deal with responding to millions of users, as opposed to hundreds in focus groups….but if you and the dev team are ok with it, then ok 🙂

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by ironfish2.

    Just a note ;

    Any ‘system’ (e.g. wordpress) behavior that needs to be explained in a forum,
    needs to have that explanation inserted into the the ‘system’.

    This way, the need for additional explanation, that is external to the ‘system’, is reduced/removed.

    A system should at least be self explanatory, and better be self evident so that explanation is not needed.

    This “+” button location/relocation behavior is odd/unconventional/non-intuitive and hopefully will not become permanent.
    ironfish2, you are quite correct, and your comments are thoughtful.

    But
    if the developers wish to continue with this present behavior of the “+” icon,
    then,
    could they please make use of a UI visual indicator that helps ‘convey a location of origin’,
    which is the swish type effect, which in this case would show a (transparent) “+” icon moved (with trailing tail) from the location at the left of Title up toward the top left location.
    or
    use a coloured line to indicate a ‘connection’ between the two locations of the “+” icon.

Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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