Possible bug report Category pages (25 posts)

  1. kickass
    Posted 10 years ago #

    I have my "real" blog here (v. 1.5) which, for ease of viewing the difference you should themeswitch to Kickass- Convergence.

    I have my "test" blog here (v.

    Same theme, same content in files, yet when you click a category
    page, the text in the post does not "paragraph" in the new one like it does in the old one-- instead it has br tags inserted singly when
    linebreaks occur, so nothing is "paragraphed"- and it ONLY does this on category pages. I looked thru admin for options, I looked at the php/xhtml, I looked at the css, I looked at EVERYTHING and there's nothing there to account for this, and nothing that succeeds in changing it.

    To make sure I wasn't going nuts I asked vkaryl to check her category pages. It does this with most themes, it always uses a single br tag anyplace I hit the enter key twice to signify the end of a paragraph, and it only does it on category pages on installations. It also adds a LOT of spaces after the initial p tag.

    I have a feeling it's in the core somewhere, and I'm not going there without a LOT of help from one of you php wizards. It would be nice if it's just a simple fix we can add to a file (instead of another upgrade . . . grumble, grumble)

  2. kickass
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Update- it does the br thing with Kubrick live (only on test blog) does NOT do it with classic live. It's currently set back to Kickass- Convergence.

    Oh, I should mention, there's only one category on the test blog, it's called "One" and is in the horizontal navbar under the header.

  3. masquerade
    Posted 10 years ago #

    It could very well be a plugin or a theme disabling wpautop, which inserts the paragraphs. Check to see if there's any remove_filters in plugins or themes.

  4. vkaryl
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Nope - that's not it here. The only one of my plugins which has anything about "remove" anything is Coldforged's Enhanced Views, it has a "remove_parameter" line with a couple of $p variables in it, but deactivating it didn't fix the lack of paragraphing....

    And it really isn't a problem in WP Classic either, which means it probably COULDN'T be a plugin....

  5. kickass
    Posted 10 years ago #

    I only have one plugin active, and it's the witty thing that adds random quotes. I looked. It doesn't remove anything.

    As to it being a theme, why would multiple themes, including the kubrick theme installed on this JUST DONE INSTALL and with absolutely no edits done to it whatsoever, cause this problem in and not in 1.5? Your logic doesn't hold up.

  6. vkaryl
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Besides, the one I'm checking for plugin problems etc. has ONLY the WPClassic theme and one of my own I just developed. Classic works fine, my own does not - admittedly, mine is not based on the files in the Classic themeset, rather on the "default" themeset I believe.

    I don't know that it's a core-file problem though, simply BECAUSE there's two different themesets here, with the situation showing only on the themeset developed from the default theme files.

    So I'm thinking this is just one more "little difficulty" with the default theme. It's maybe in one of the files.... I haven't had a chance to look yet - just got rebooted and back online again, thunderstorms and lightning this afternoon.

  7. vkaryl
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Okay, it about has to be in one of the "archive" files - because it doesn't happen in wp classic, which doesn't have either archive.php OR archives.php.

    Guess I'll go dig around some though since I'm not real swift with php files (other than includes), I don't know that I'd know it when I found it!

    Edit: well, no, actually it doesn't need to be in there. Maybe it might more likely be in wherever the_content or the_excerpt is contained and called from.... So that being the case, I amend my above statement about it NOT being in the core files.

  8. kickass
    Posted 10 years ago #

    I don't have my archives set up "weekly" or "monthly", I'd be curious to hear if the same issue is happening on those pages using the original Kubrick theme unedited and on, with or without any plug-ins.

    And for the life of me I cannot see ANYTHING in that archive.php file that would cause this. There's very little xhtml other than the occasional h2, h3 or p-- it's mostly php calls to the core files, and the calls appear to be codex-perfect, at least the ones I checked, like the call to the_exerpt.

  9. vkaryl
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Yeah, I've been looking at a lot of the core files.... for one thing, it seemed as if functions-formatting.php might be a likely place to start, but the thing is, I just don't know what I'm looking for really.... especially hard to find if it's something "missing" to begin with!

    I have monthly archives - and any post needing paragraphing doesn't have it.... just like the rest.

  10. vkaryl
    Posted 10 years ago #

    "li'l whine" as I get ready to head off to bed....

    I just don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for here. Of course, if it's something that's really missing, instead of just "misplaced" or something I'M doing wrong, I guess that's not a surprise.... it seems almost impossible that only two of us actually have this problem though, y'know?

    None of you php-guru types have ANY clue? Kafkaesquí? No help showing? *sigh*

  11. vkaryl
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Okay - I fixed it.... sort of....

    I renamed archive.php to 1archive.php and archives.php to 1archives.php.

    Voilá! Paragraphing properly. Any takers on why?

    [[In other words, this works, but I have no idea why or what the problem really was....]]

  12. kickass
    Posted 10 years ago #


    That's because it's using your index.php to "build" the archive pages now.

    I ran a second test. I renamed archive.php to category.php. No paragraphing. Then I deleted archives.php off the server. No paragraphing. So I simply deleted category.php (formerly archive.php) off the server. Now I've got paragraphing. To further isolate where the problem is, I re-uploaded archives.php. I still have paragraphing. So the problem appears to be in the archive.php file. Now I've torn that damned file apart backwards and forwards and can't figure it out. I zipped up the archive.php file and stuck it here:


    Could someone figure out what is in this code (or in the core) that is causing this? The only difference I can see in the loop is that index.php calls the whole post and not the exerpt.

  13. vkaryl
    Posted 10 years ago #

    I opened archive.php and changed "the_excerpt" to "the_content". Paragraphs are fine. So it's apparently something in the function calls which is different.

    Here's what I think: because you normally only see a short excerpt when you open an archive page, "the_excerpt" doesn't need to use any form of paragraphing. However, unless for some unknown reason you want your category listing of posts to show only excerpts as well, it IS a problem if the category listing of posts uses "the_excerpt" instead of "the_comment" - and this is apparently what's happening: the category page by default uses the same function as the archive page.

    So whatever part of whatever core file calls that for categories needs to be changed to "the_comment". I haven't had time yet today to go digging again, but I'll see what I can find eventually. And of course, simply changing the call in archive.php works fine too - as a stopgap measure.

  14. vkaryl
    Posted 10 years ago #

    My apologies, everyone! I was obviously in "blond and senior space-cadet" mode earlier.... that should read "the_content" NOT "the_comment".

    I AM sorry - that will teach me to go off to barbeque lunch for a few hours!

  15. kickass
    Posted 10 years ago #

    No problem, vkaryl!

    Anyway, it appears this paragraphing problem exists in (dunno about versions between 1.5 and the most recent) and only when the_exerpt is called. Could someone who has more php knowledge than I do PLEASE come up with a workaround? It used to work, now it's broken.

    I also tried to post this on the bug board as a minor low priority bug fix, since it's now known this is something that needs to be fixed in a core file and this is what I got:
    "Permission Denied

    This action requires TICKET_CREATE permission. "

    That coupled with the silence here from almost everyone who does WP dev makes me wonder what the h-e-doublehockeysticks is going on. I know this isn't a security concern, or a major problem, but sheesh, it's gotta be a really easy fix for someone who knows what they're doing.

  16. vkaryl
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Yeah, bit worrying the silence.... for now, I just overwrote all the archive.php pages in my blog themes with the "corrected version" - but that's pretty well just like a cosmetic cover up for an ugly zit, y'know?

  17. Beel
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Reality check ;-) It's only been a day since the thread even started.

  18. tomhanna
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Why do you think this is a problem in core files? If archives.php is calling for the_excerpt and getting the_excerpt what's the "bug" in the core? Or is your complaint that the_excerpt no longer uses paragraph tags. That's an improvement not a bug IMHO since those paragraph tags cause validation errors in some cases.

  19. vkaryl
    Posted 10 years ago #

    I haven't noticed any validation problems in Classic, wherein the paragraphing works fine in category and archive displays (using the_content one assumes). I will double check with themes I'm currently using where I've changed the_excerpt to the_content for category and archive displays.

    A flaw such as not displaying the paragraphing which one has input in one's posts shouldn't be considered an "improvement" I wouldn't think....

    [Edit: just validated archive and category pages on my blog sites - they all still validate to XHTML 1.0 Strict, even with the return of paragraphing to the display.... Oh, except for Taft, which doesn't validate to even HTML 4.01 Transitional, but that's a whole OTHER can of worms for sure! Great theme and look, but isn't valid anything....]

  20. tomhanna
    Posted 10 years ago #

    As I understand what you are saying, the paragraphs are there in the_content, but not in the_excerpt. There are at least two threads I've seen recently on the problem caused by having
    when the_excerpt is placed in a link. It's useful to have something with an excerpt of text that you can use in situations where the extra formatting isn't required (or could even cause problems) and the logical place to do that seems to be the_excerpt. For post content, just use the_content as it's intended and the formatting is there.

  21. vkaryl
    Posted 10 years ago #

    I don't use the_excerpt at all anywhere. There seems to be no logical reason to have category displays (and archives) use the_excerpt rather than the_content.

    However, as I stated earlier, I've already taken care of this misalignment of display by replacing the_excerpt with the_content in the relevant file.

    I still think this needs further addressing, and I think the way it's handled in the core wp files is wonky, silly and wrong. That's a personal opinion only.

  22. kickass
    Posted 10 years ago #

    "Why do you think this is a problem in core files?"
    Paragraphing in the_exerpt works in 1.5. It doesn't work in Same theme. Theme hasn't changed. Core files have. What evidence do you have that it isn't in the core? Show me.

    "Or is your complaint that the_excerpt no longer uses paragraph tags. That's an improvement not a bug IMHO since those paragraph tags cause validation errors in some cases." What type of validation are you speaking of? I validated 1.5 paragraphed category archive with no problem, both xhtml and css. I've also never heard of a properly used paragraph tag causing a validation error ever. As to my "complaint" re paragraphing, if a sentence is defined by the author (any author!) as a paragraph it should be presented that way by WP, whether it's an exerpt or a full post. It used to work. It doesn't now. Why would you feel that changing an author's work is something that is for the better?

    "There are at least two threads I've seen recently on the problem caused by having when the_excerpt is placed in a link. It's useful to have something with an excerpt of text that you can use in situations where the extra formatting isn't required (or could even cause problems) and the logical place to do that seems to be the_excerpt." Maybe not so logical . . . maybe another template tag should be created for this specific use, and that only calls maybe the first sentence or the first X words of a post, and that will strip out formatting. Save the_exerpt for its original intended use, and don't try to overburden it by making it wear too many hats.

    Bottom line is this-- Don't you think the presentation the author expects should be respected? Or do you want to rewrite/reformat all my posts too?

  23. tomhanna
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Sure. And that is what the_content does. the_excerpt is supposed to produce a short excerpt of the words.

    Here is an example of the validation error caused by putting the_excerpt, with a "properly used paragraph tag" inside a link:


    And as was noted in that thread

    Oh! So, is this true, that the excerpt puts a p-tag into the links? There is nothing about in the Codex :(

    So, actually what the_excerpt does is add paragraphs around the content whether the author put them there or not. So, no, I don't want to strip the paragraphs out of your posts, but I don't like anyone adding paragraphs to my work without telling me. Six of one half a dozen of the other.

  24. vkaryl
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Yes, of course that's what an excerpt is - a snippet to supposedly further whet the appetite. That's not really the point: the point is why are archive and category pages formed using the_excerpt rather than the_content? And one other thing I can't quite get from either that thread or your quote: the complaint I have is that there IS NO paragraphing in posts shown on category/archive pages - so how on earth can the_excerpt be adding paragraph tags? If it is doing so, where then are they? Here's a copy n paste from one of my test posts showing this "in action" so to speak (or not, as the case may be....):

    This one has been interesting so far….
    Tuesday, July 12th, 2005

    combining the graphics for the header took some monkeying; might not have been so bad, except my old standby PSP6 is having some problems - really oddball stuff….
    And this is a paragraphing test.
    And this is another one.

    Posted in Off to see the Wizard | Edit | 1 Comment »

    There are breaks just fine between the post title/meta stuff etc, but no paragraphing at all where it should be - that is, after the word "stuff...." and after the word "test."

    So this seems to be something which could be addressed by changing the default for archive/catagory pages. Seems to me that using the_content should be the default rather than using the_excerpt. Obviously this is simply the opinion of a more than small minority of people here; thing is, I don't use the_excerpt for anything at all, it's fair useless to me, so why should I have to have my posts whacked when accessed through archive or category simply because it's in use in a (to me) really odd way?

    Perhaps there might be added into Options-General a setting to select to change this? Or is that asking too much? Unlike others, I'd be perfectly happy to tweak core files if I knew anything about php - which I don't. Guess I'll have to find someone else to ask....

  25. kickass
    Posted 10 years ago #

    vkaryl- I don't want complete posts on my archive list pages, I want exerpts-- but I also want them paragraphed the way I meant them to be, which is the way it used to work in 1.5. Using it seems that if I want to have my archive pages paragraphed properly and the way I intended then I'm forced to show whole posts instead of exerpts. That, quite frankly, sucks.

    tomhanna- I might be totally wrong, but the way I understood that thread the_exerpt was putting paragraph tags around the whole exerpt and, if there were already paragraphs formed within the exerpt, this would then cause a validation error. Okay, I understand that would cause a problem-- BUT that does not seem to be what is happening in 1.5 with excerpts on archive pages (which work properly.) Read down further and you'll see what I mean. I'm also seeing a reference to the_excerpt_rss as the choice of tags to use inside links since the_excerpt_rss strips out all html tags. Okay, that makes sense, and there is a different tag to use for linking purposes. If people use the_excerpt_rss for this "inside a link" purpose then why can't paragraphing be made to work in the_excerpt?? That would seem to be the logical breakdown and the logical uses for both.

    Just so we're all on the same page here, I pulled source on one of my archive pages in the 1.5 version blog and this is the code:
    <div class="entry">
    <p>Kickass-Convergence is up and running, and seems to work well on Win-PC browsers. Please let me know of any problems or issues, especially in Mac Browsers (yes, IEMac, if you can!)</p>

    <p>If you’re here to browser check Kickass-Convergence for me, you’ll find it on my theme-switcher, which lurks towards the bottom of my linklists. […]</p>


    The page, is here (Kickass- Convergence on themeswitcher, just so we're all looking at the same code):

    I ran it through validation and it's fine. You can also see, when you look at the code snippet and at source of that page, that no extraneous paragraph tags are being added around the "outside" of the excerpts to cause validation errors, which means that in 1.5 the original the_excerpt worked perfectly well, which is what I've been contending all along. But in archive pages it doesn't.

    If this no-longer-paragraphing thing was a "fix" for something else, well, it broke excerpts for the original intended purpose. And since there's another and more logical tag to use for the purpose the "fix" seems to have been intended for (if I understand all this mess correctly) . . . Please, give all of us paragraphing back in excerpts!

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