[Plugin: Podcast Channels] Testing Feedback (20 posts)

  1. shalako
    Posted 7 years ago #

    Here's my settings
    Here's how it looks in iTunes

    Channel Summary appears in iTunes for the Item Subtitle (Description). I would expect Channel Summary to appear only when I click the 'i' in the Description field for the Channel.

    When clicking on the 'i' for either the channel or item, I find the whole body of the post. Of course, this is not desirable. I would expect the channel summary currently set to appear when I click the 'i' for channel (Issue #1), and would hope to get item-level control of itunes:summary (viewable when clicking the 'i' in Description for the Item).

    Notice that item category is set to 'El Tintero' or the category name, rather than the Category specified for the channel in settings.

    I really need to be able to specify itunes:author at an item level.

    I would like to be able to specify itunes:subtitle at the item level. Currently the channel-level value of itunes:summary appears here incorrectly.


  2. shalako
    Posted 7 years ago #

    I noticed that getID3() is included with the plugin; couldn't this be used to pull item-level itunes:author from the ID3 tags?

    I tag all these files meticulously in iTunes before uploading them in the first place; it's a shame this information has be set again by various means on the server...


  3. shalako
    Posted 7 years ago #

    When the podcast is expanded, clicking on the channel summary ('i' in Description) shows the correct value specified in the plugin settings.

    However when the podcast is collapsed, clicking on the 'i' shows the whole body of the post. I assume this is the value of the item summary.

  4. alanft
    Posted 7 years ago #

    just for ref, i've been using this as my source http://www.apple.com/itunes/whatson/podcasts/specs.html

    right then

    "Channel Summary appears in iTunes for the Item Subtitle (Description)"

    this shouldn't be how PodChan behaves. the iTunes item description is taken from the item's post text - it should show the first 250 characters. the item summary (what you get when you click the i on an item) is the whole post.

    let me know if the text in an item does NOT match the post text

    "When clicking on the 'i' for either the channel or item, I find the whole body of the post"

    again this isn't how it's behaving here. it's MEANT to do that for the items, but for the channel it should be the summary text as defined in the PodChan admin interface.

    your observations #1 and #2 might be because your first post and your summary look similar?

    "Notice that item category is set to 'El Tintero' or the category name, rather than the Category specified for the channel in settings"

    This is intended - as the apple spec says nothing about item categories, only channel categories. I haven't actually tried adding the itunes:category to items because apple says (link above) that its not valid to do so. However iTunes does pick up and display the regular (non itunes) 'category' info in the item RSS (which WP sets to your various post categories). i could put in an option to suppress this entirely - looking at other pro-podcasts i subscribe too, item categories are entirely blank.

    Authors per item - absolutely. The way I have done this in PodChan is totally wrong headed! In the next release I will let the post author display name become the item author, but include an option to let the category author override that if wanted. (which is what it currently does.) Thanks for pointing this out - i have already been playing with how best to implement the 'override' option (that i want, but i can see being a minority requirement)

    itunes:subtitle at the item level - this is the same as point #1 i think. PodChan code definitely uses the text of the post for the item level subtitle

  5. alanft
    Posted 7 years ago #

    ID3 tags and author - good point. I think the point #3 in your first point takes precedence though. The post author should be (by default) the item author. i WILL change this soon. (Just done this in v0.25 committed now)

    I am thinking now though that i could offer THREE options for the author of an item: 1) use the WP post author, 2) use the PodChan category author, 3) use the enclosure's ID3 tags 'author info'. getting too complex?

    "However when the podcast is collapsed, clicking on the 'i' shows the whole body of the post. I assume this is the value of the item summary."

    this is iTunes behaviour. when collapsed it should show a concatenation of the summary for the channel and the most recent item.

  6. alanft
    Posted 7 years ago #

    another observation WRT item author in iTunes, is that when an enclosure is downloaded, the author field is set to the value in the ID3 tags.

    I notice that some pro-podcasts i subscribe to leave item author blank, others match the ID3 tags, but not consistently. don't know what this means in terms of deciding what to do in Podcast Channels - i'm liking the reading in of ID3 tags and giving the three options i was imagining ^^ up there.

    hmm :-)

  7. shalako
    Posted 7 years ago #

    Thanks again for your replies. I have been referencing the same spec.

    I would expect ID3 tags to be the default authority for item-level meta and any web-app logic an override. This comes from a perspective of work flow; the file is managed locally before uploading to the server. Why do the work twice? I can see how some would prefer to set item author to post author but that should be a an override provided as a convenience, what do you think?

    I see in the iTunes spec that item category isn't supported; didn't notice that before. I've been using the podcasts I subscribe to as models; they all have item category set to Music even when they have multiple channels. Would love to know how they do that. Given the choice between displaying the WP post category and being blank, I'd go with blank.

    #1,3,5 (Subtitle and Summary)
    I've just discovered that with Feedburner's Smartcast feature turned off things work a little better:
    channel subtitle (itunes description) = Subtitle (pod-chan)
    channel summary (itunes 'i' in description) = Summary (pod-chan)
    item subtitle = truncated post text
    item summary = post text

    When Smartcast is turned on the channel subtitle gets set to Summary.

    So working with Smartcast off for the moment, things look like they are behaving the way you built them.

    I would argue that 250 character have no place in the iTunes Description column. How do you read it all? Apple says, "The subtitle displays best if it is only a few words long."

    Also, your logic for item subtitle sets unfortunate demands on the way posts are written. Rather than begin the post with some prose and have these first 250 chars appear as irrelevant text in iTunes Description for that episode, I have to begin my post with a summary (ie, "This week we focus on the music of SoAndSo") and even then the balance of 250 chars appears in iTunes.

    Would it be difficult to add a text field for item subtitle? If not, how about set it to the value of post excerpt rather than truncating the post body?

    As for item summary, I can understand the logic for including the entire post text, but can we filter out the WordPress markup such as 'caption' and 'audio' (the second being markup for wpaudioplayer)?

    Whew. Thanks!

  8. alanft
    Posted 7 years ago #

    item author
    i'm already working on reading the ID3 'artist' tag, and then will offer 'post author/channel author/ID3 artist' i think. this will be a site default that will inherit, so you need only set it for the site, but can override per channel. (on the way i noticed more 2.7 issues when reading ID3 tags of attachments which will be fixed in the next release)

    item category
    i'll see if it's easy to suppress the WP cats, and if so, again this could be another multi-option field per channel.

    item subtitle
    totally agree with you - and i did have 'post excerpt' in mind exactly! with no post excerpt i could use the truncated post content. and to be nicer, truncated post content up to the 'more' tag would be nicer.

    item summary
    i've been thinking about filtering out some bits and pieces like that. esp the wpaudioplayer [audio: xxxx] markup. what's the caption markup?

  9. shalako
    Posted 7 years ago #

    sounds great. let me know when i can test it for you :)

    caption appears when you insert an image from the wordpress media gallery.

    one more item i came across: i thought it made sense to group my podcasts under a parent category called, surprisingly, Podcasts. However, this parent category doesn't appear in the 'Add Channel' drop down category list so I can't configure feed settings for a channel which would contain content for all podcasts. make sense?


  10. alanft
    Posted 7 years ago #

    oo, it should do. i also have an overarching category and can select that from the dropdown ok - i will check to see if there are conditions under which parent categories won't appear. it uses wp_dropdown_categories() - will check if that's still the right way to do it.

  11. alanft
    Posted 7 years ago #

    I have committed another update to the dev version. This adds in 'Episode category' and 'Episode author' options

    ep cats: post cat / channel cat / blank
    ep author: post author / channel author / media artist

    media artist is read from the ID3 tags and is editable in the media library

    (not found out about the issue with the drop-down add category menu yet - sorry)

  12. shalako
    Posted 7 years ago #

    I have installed the latest dev version but don't see where 'ep cats' and 'ep author' are in the UI. Not in the channel 'add field' drop down.

  13. shalako
    Posted 7 years ago #

    just upgraded using WP auto upgrade to .26 and these field appear. I have set the following and will test.
    ep cats = channel cat
    ep author = media artist

  14. shalako
    Posted 7 years ago #

    I use FTP to upload my media since they are 80MB so I have installed the Add To Server plugin to import files into the WP Media Library. In Media Library I have specified the Artist for the file and in Podcast Channels I have specified the following settings:

    Episode category: channel cat
    Episode author: media artist

    By the way, these should be drop down menus, instead of free text fields, right?

    After saving and resubscribing to the feed in iTunes, the only change I see is that both channel artist and episode artist appear as post author. Episode category continues to be post category.

  15. shalako
    Posted 7 years ago #

    So I've been doing testing on the behavior of enclosures and files in the Media Library, and I just came back to Podcast-Channels and the text fields for ep-cat and ep-author have changed to drop downs! Low and behold the defaults were not what I wanted to I set them to:

    Episode category: Channel categories
    Episode author: Media artist

    Resynced Feedburner... and pow! Episode Artist and Category are as I want them to be. Whew.

    But... Channel Category now shows up as Media Artist. How to fix?

  16. shalako
    Posted 7 years ago #

    I just received notice from Apple that our feed has been approved in the iTunes Store. All the tags look great except for item subtitle (still shows truncated post text). Would be great if this could be set to post excerpt or content until 'more' tag.

  17. alanft
    Posted 7 years ago #

    oops, i didn't mean to update the latest version number to 0.26 - that was meant to stay as the development version!

    "Add To Server plugin" !!! i have never seen this before. it might have saved me writing my own plugin http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/import-legacy-media/

    Your initial issues with missing drop downs were caching issues as the JS file changed too, so that's OK.

    however "Channel Category now shows up as Media Artist" - can you clarify/expand on what you mean by that

  18. shalako
    Posted 7 years ago #

    The channel category no longer shows up as media artist. Don't know how, but I'm not complaining :)

    Yep things are in pretty good shape. I'm looking forward to resolution of the following items:

    1. Control of item subtitle in some way so that it can be a short blurb without putting limitations on the way a post is written.
    2. Filtering out markup in item summary.
    3. Add category channel dropdown doesn't display parents.

    I think those are the only items I'm tracking. Thanks so much for your efforts. Going to give your plugin a big plug soon.

  19. alanft
    Posted 7 years ago #

    Terrific, thanks :-)

    (i'm still not sure what you mean by 'the channel category no longer shows up as media artist')

    1 - i actually sneaked in using the post excerpt if it exists! and am still tinkering with options here
    2 - not sure exactly what to include here, but am experimenting
    3 - still not seeing this, but again will play around and let you know

  20. shalako
    Posted 7 years ago #

    What I meant was, for a little while the channel category for my podcast appeared as 'Shalako' (Artist, from media library), rather than 'Music' (channel category set in podcast-channels). But this is no longer the case.

    I'll check out #1

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