Support » Plugin: Gutenberg » Please make this a Jetpack module…

  • John

    (@dsl225)



    … or a “feature* for wp.com users and leave to self-hosted sites the freedom to chose if they want to install such thing.

    The question here is not whether Gutenberg is “good or bad” but rather whether is has to be self-imposed in our workflow without our consent.

    (I already know the ready-made reply about the Classic Editor plugin, so don’t waste your time with that argument here because it is precisely part of the problem: Gutenberg should be a opt-in feature and not an opt-out).

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
  • Plugin Author Tammie Lister

    (@karmatosed)

    Firstly, thanks for taking the time to leave a review. The path as you say to implementation isn’t set yet – that’s really worth repeating.

    John

    (@dsl225)

    Thanks for clarifying this but I had another understanding from what I read here and there about that path and I’m certainly not alone.

    From your own replies about the Classic Editor plugin, you (and many others) always promote this plugin as a “temporary” solution for those who don’t want to switch to this Jetpack module named Gutenberg right away.

    When you state this in such way you imply that:
    1. it will be imposed and we’ll only have the choice to opt-out
    2. this plugin is a temporary solution in order to prepare the migration.

    Problem is, I, and many others apparently, simply don’t want to use this thing EVER. It’s clearly not a question of getting prepared or getting the time to learn; it’s simply a total rejection of tools of this sort. Be it Gutenberg or page builders, whatever. If I wanted to work that way for my sites and my clients I would have switched to Squarespace or something similar long time ago. We work with WP self hosted framework for a reason!

    In fact for many reasons… And one of the most important of them is the ability to chose our environment, our work-space and tools.

    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  John.
    Plugin Author Tammie Lister

    (@karmatosed)

    From your own replies about the Classic Editor plugin, you (and many others) always promote this plugin as a “temporary” solution for those who don’t want to switch to this Jetpack module named Gutenberg right away.

    Just to be clear, Gutenberg is nothing to do with Jetpack. I’m not sure where that confusion came from and wanted to set that straight.

    To be clear, if you want to not have the experience you can install the classic plugin. As for how long this is an option, I would say that you at least prepare for that as an experience for the next year. I think it’s important to note that as with any core development, the process will iterate over time and what we have today as the Gutenberg editor, will adapt.

    Just to be clear, Gutenberg is nothing to do with Jetpack. I’m not sure where that confusion came from and wanted to set that straight.

    There is no confusion here: I, myself, and many others, consider this as nothing more than a Jetpack module that should be optional. You consider this as a “core development” that should be added without the (self hosted) user’s consent. We simply don’t agree but there is absolutely no confusion.

    In addition to being a more intuitive, user-friendly interface for people to write and create pages, Gutenberg is also:

    1. A framework for plugins and themes to register and provide interactions in blocks. Right now every plugin and theme does this differently, there are no common patterns or language.
    2. Phase 2 of Gutenberg replaces widgets, menus, and allows for theme layout in the customizer. This means that users can learn things once, and developers can write things once, and have them work all over the site instead of (for example) creating a shortcode for the editor, a TinyMCE plugin to have an interface for it, and a completely separate widget to do the same thing, and a separate interface for that.

    Thanks for the clarification but this doesn’t make it an opt-in feature.

    I fully understand the energy, time and resources spent on this and I fully respect the orientations taken but please also respect us – this huge bunch of users that says “no thanks”.

    I truly believe you are doing a great job here – as always did so far – and Gutenberg might be a super-great-fantastic addition for some WP users (mainly for wp.com) as also some page builders might be the same way. But please also understand that there are a lot of wp.org users that will never ever install a page builder or make use of Gutenberg. Never. Ever.

    I’m just asking to respect this and allow them to keep working as they currently do and not only temporarily.

    As a side-note, I just wanted to say here that most of Gutenberg presentations I’ve seen so far praising this “innovation” as the “future of web publishing” are doing more harm than anything else. At least for people doubting. They are just increasingly convincing the already convinced ones. The worst I’ve seen so far was this one. You really have a communication issue with this.

    There has been nothing but respect for the user who wants to be left alone from the core team. The classic editor is a very viable solution. And he can be left alone and use the clean text editor even in Gutenberg. And why not stay at 4.9.x. – You will have plenty of company looking at the number of people still on older versions. Only 56.6 % of WordPress sites are on 4.8 & 4.9 – meaning 43.4% are on older versions and didn’t think they needed all the new stuff. And what do you know, they still get security patches. The last one was just released couple of weeks ago and patch back to 3.7. The Core Team gives plenty of respect to site owners and user guarding anything for backward compatibility.

    I have been nothing but a purist for a long time. I tested page builders, and I agree each one of them was nothin but ‘meh’. Until I actually used Gutenberg on a few sites in production, I wasn’t able to grasp the huge leap forward it provides for content creation. It’s an utter joy to write blog posts in Gutenberg. It has been a real eye-opener for me. But that’s just me. My opinion only counts when I am home. Alone.

    The worst I’ve seen so far was this one. You really have a communication issue with this.

    I by contrast thought that the communication was well done & Morten’s presentation was one of the best things I’ve seen on Gutenberg.

    While I understand the need for the Gutenberg team to keep communicating with “people doubting” Gutenberg, like yourself, I also see that it is very unlikely to have any impact.

    I also see that it is very unlikely to have any impact.

    In fact there is indeed an impact: a negative one.
    You can the results right here, in the amount of negative reviews.

    It’s like self driven cars. You can find the technology awesome and be excited about it but there are people like me that will never ever take seat in such cars. The more you praise this technology, the more you make us more convinced to never take a seat in there and even hope those cars will be soon banned from public roads. Because you ignore the human factor – which in our case is usability.

    I may find Gutenberg extremely well designed and, at the same time, think that this is not for me. Simply because I don’t want to work in a such way. I want to still have the pleasure to drive my car by my own. Otherwise I take a taxi.

    That being said, I fully understand people like you that are excited by this. I’m simply asking, as many others, to give us the choice. Hence the title of the post.

    But please also understand that there are a lot of wp.org users that will never ever install a page builder or make use of Gutenberg. Never. Ever.

    I’m relatively new to WP development. I have been working with Themes and page builders. Could you elaborate on reasons why you would never use a page builder?

    I would like to learn how advanced developers and coders use WordPress. If you could send me a link to use as a reference starting point that would be great.

    @stx28: This thread here is not about personal preferences and not even if Gutenberg is “good or bad” but rather whether it should be part of WP core or as be developed as independent plugin or Jetpack module.

    @dsl225 I understand that there are rules in place about what each thread is about and what goes where. BUT, at the end of the day the WordPress community is about working together, contributing and helping others. Thank you for explaining to me what this thread is for, still would be nice to get a link to other methods of WP development.

    To me, it seems obvious that releasing it as a plugin is the better option. The whole principle of a good CMS is to keep core as simple and secure as possible. One can add as many plugins as needed for their instance of development. It’s like getting a new phone with bloatware you don’t need or will never use. They just take up space.
    I understand that sometimes developers get too passionate about their projects. They have a specific vision for it, forgetting that there are others within the community who may not share their beliefs. The question is can they remain objective and do whats best for the whole or must they force their ideals on others. I really don’t see whats there to discuss. Make it a plugin and everyone wins.

    Am I the only one see all this different way ?
    I do understand arguments of all sides, but….but…

    It will make huge damage for millions of websites, and only God knows how will it end. And how many new Users WP will attract, or old Users push away. When saying “User” I mean all, developers, owners/Users, webdesigners, webmasters, etc…

    This is scenario for millions of websites, it is there, real, and so will it happen:
    (for a brief moment we can follow human logic, follow money, and not logic of a coder.)

    – Web company is done with an website.
    – Web company charges huge sum of money from client for an website.
    – Client is more than pleased with work, it is done, finished, and he/she does not want to give a single € more for website.
    – Then comes Gutenberg.
    – It is different, it is something he/she did not agreeded with web company, it is forced upon then.
    – Now they have to pay money, per hour, just for any web company to login in backend and check what is happening.
    – Of course they wont do it, they will be angry, they will resolut refuse to give any money because of this mess.
    – It makes web company very bad. Should I stick with WP, should I move to Drupal, Joomla, something else.

    Best case scenario is (and also very frightening):
    – Web copmpany explain to client they do not need to pay a single €, but just to wait few months for all plugins to catch pace. When client ask can they guarantee this and what is exact time. Web company replies, it can last for years, it can never come.

    Third alternative is to block any core upgrades in wp-config.php. And just wait for hackers, they will come.

    It is all about money. Client will be mad and absolutely refuse to pay anything for this mess to be fixed.
    Web company will refuse to deal with this mess for free. Despite web company is more quilty for mess.

    What it leaves for clients and for web companies after this mess ? To invest many years ahead in WP and experience the same thing ?

    Classis Editor plugin is not solution, as all we know it is only prolonging problem. It is just temporary solution.

    Worth to add and mention, I am not writing all this because necessarily I will experience this problem, not whole impact of it.
    Have not much websites done for money,and I am very lucky that all my clients are acceptable for any of mine advices I give them “for their good and best”. Plus I update all their websites, core and plugin, fix any errors done by updates for free, so they appreciate that.

    There are web companies that made hundreds, thousands of WP websites for money, and you still do not have any solution whatsoever for them.
    In no way those web companies can do as I do. Impossible. They have to charge money for any mess Gutenberg will make.

    Wont mention now probably bad media coverage when, big and influential, client drags web company to the court.
    Client wants mess to be fixed for free. Web company refuses to do it for free.
    Website exposes maybe front-end errors, and make client in bad light publicly. If no any front-end problems, client cannot add/edit content anymore as before. For what he/she paid huge money.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by  Stagger Lee.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by  Stagger Lee.

    @stagger-lee – the scenario you paint you sounds so much like the ones I heard around the Y2K bug. I’m sure it will be much less dramatic than you predict.

    It won’t be. Because major upgrades are not automatic. Unless owner is curious and login as Admin.
    But it is not the point.

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this review.