Support » Requests and Feedback » Gutenberg is the wrong direction

  • Blaze Miskulin

    (@blazemiskulin)


    WordPress was built on its ease of use.

    Gutenberg will destroy that (quite ironically).

    With 5.x and the introduction of Gutenberg as the default editor, I can no longer recommend WP to my clients (I used to insist on WP).

    It’s blatantly obvious that the current developers have no clue what content creators actually want.

    I have been using WP since v1.

    I will be looking for a new CMS for my own sites, and for all of my clients.

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 22 total)
  • Joy

    (@joyously)

    There was a lot of hate for the Customizer when it came out also. It evolved and now a lot of those haters like it.
    The developers of GB have listened to a lot of feedback (not all of it), and there are quite a few people who like GB. I figure it will evolve and about the time that support for the Classic Editor plugin is over, it will be much better.

    Good luck finding another CMS. It’s not easy. There is at least one fork of WordPress.
    Or you could keep your sites on 4.9.x.

    staartmees

    (@staartmees)

    If you don’t like Gutenberg, you can always install The Classic Editor

    Blaze Miskulin

    (@blazemiskulin)

    @ Joy

    Good luck finding another CMS. It’s not easy.

    Softaculous lists 16 (not including WP). And that does not include Drupal or Joomla or any cloud options. That also doesn’t take into consideration how the person/company is using the CMS.

    I have clients that would do just fine with a static HTML site. Others would do well to move to an e-commerce solution.

    Finding another CMS is very easy.

    There was a lot of hate for the Customizer when it came out also.

    Customizer can be used or ignored. It’s not a critical aspect of how people interact with the software.

    Gutenberg, on the other hand, assumes that every user has advanced knowledge and skills regarding content creation and layout. Gutenberg is requiring that every user be a “page designer”. WordPress got where it is by being simple to use. And it’s ignoring that userbase.

    The developers of GB have listened to a lot of feedback

    That’s coming from the “power users”–the ones that even know that forums like this exist. Has WP done actual market research? Or are they relying on forum comments?

    And, if you look at the ratings of Gutenberg within the WP community (based on rankings for the plugin), it’s 23% positive (4-5 stars), 4% neutral (3 stars), and 72% negative (1-2 stars)

    Even the power-users don’t want it. With this change, WP’s market share is going to drop. Severely.

    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by  Blaze Miskulin.
    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by  Steve Stern. Reason: fixed formatting
    budrwo

    (@budrwo)

    Why people are so sick about Gutemberg when we can simply disable it ?!
    Do you just like making drama for no reason ?
    I find this ridiculous.

    budrwo

    (@budrwo)

    No, I do not use any plugin to disable Gutemberg, I use one line of code, an I do not believe that it won’t be possible anymore in the future.
    Gutemberg or not, for me nothing changed, I still use the classic editor, and without adding another ridiculous plugin.

    Blaze Miskulin

    (@blazemiskulin)

    #budrwo

    Why people are so sick about Gutemberg when we can simply disable it ?!

    Because of this:

    “Gutenberg is more than an editor. While the editor is the focus right now, the project will ultimately impact the entire publishing experience including customization (the next focus area).”

    Gutenberg is more than just a page-builder or editor. It’s an entirely new approach to WordPress–one which is, many feel, in direct opposition to the ideals that have built WordPress into the industry leader that it is. And we won’t be able to “just turn it off”. Moving forward, Gutenberg will be WordPress.

    I first installed WordPress v1 about 15 years ago (back when everything, including the DB, had to be setup by hand). I’ve seen a lot of changes in WP over the years. Some I liked, some I didn’t. But they were always supported by–and responsive to–the opinions of the userbase.

    It’s not “drama” to speak up about such a major shift. It’s called “feedback”, and it’s what a FOSS community should want.

    budrwo

    (@budrwo)

    I guess that you will enjoy Drupal crap 🙂

    Blaze Miskulin

    (@blazemiskulin)

    @ budrwo

    I guess that you will enjoy Drupal crap

    I don’t know if you’re a WP shill, a “true believer”, or just someone who enjoys stirring up the pot. But..

    There are plenty of alternatives.

    Most important is the one that isn’t listed there:ClassicPress.

    This change is so significant that it has actually created a fork.

    Gutenberg isn’t just a tweak or an update. It’s a complete paradigm shift.

    You can continue to “change one line of code”. But let’s talk two years from now when that “one line of code” is “one thousand lines of code and a shift to an entirely different back-end”. And let’s talk about how that will affect businesses that maintain dozens–if not hundreds–of installs.

    WordPress brags that they power 25% of the internet. And now they’re insisting that 25% of the internet make a major change and do what WP tells them to–when 72% of the “power users” are opposed to the change.

    I’m looking at ClassicPress. I’m betting that a lot of others are doing the same.

    Moderator Jan Dembowski

    (@jdembowski)

    Forum Moderator and Brute Squad

    *Reads first post. Does the hands timeout thing*

    I’ll regret this, I am sure. There will almost certainly be hate replies from this either here or other sites. Those are fun.

    All I am asking for is a little sense of proportion. If someone wants to “jump ship”, hey this is an opensource project that drives a large part of what the Internet is built on. Use the tool you like. Many people do.

    What exactly is the problem? The actual problem?

    If it’s the new editor then there are plugins that can address that. The Classic Editor is just one and there are others. Problem solved. So why the “Gutenberg will destroy that (quite ironically)”? And before you reply, thank you for not going off the rails. Your post and replies have been refreshing and not even a little bit insulting. You’re a long time user of WordPress and you’re obviously concerned.

    But really, please without a 900 word essay comment, what is exactly the problem you have with WordPress 5.0.2?

    Blaze Miskulin

    (@blazemiskulin)

    But really, please without a 900 word essay comment, what is exactly the problem you have with WordPress 5.0.2?

    Concise version: Gutenberg has a 72% disapproval rating. It alienates most of the current userbase, is broken as a page-builder, requires significantly more time and effort to achieve the same result, and offers zero value in return.

    Is that “exact” enough? If you want me to be more exact, I’ll have to exceed your 900-word limit.

    Long Version: Oh dear… You’re asking a writer to be “brief”.

    1) I don’t have a problem with WP 5.x

    2) I have many issues and concerns with Gutenberg.

    Gutenberg (as an editor/page-builder–I have no clue what future iterations will involve) assumes that all users a) are capable of using and b) want a “page editor”.

    I’ve worked with a lot of clients over the past 10 years. They were charities, sub-culture communities, small businesses, and even a couple (small) international corporations.

    For every one of them, the appeal of WordPress (as I have explained it to them) is the simplicity. My standard pitch has been “If you can write an e-mail, you can build a website”.

    With a 1-hour class, I could teach anyone how to create pages and write posts. For advanced clients, I’ve begun to recommend the Elementor page-builder.

    Gutenberg is going to alienate anyone who isn’t a “power user”. Ironically, it’s also going to alienate many who are “power users” because the builders have no clue as to the workflow of their users.

    Authors don’t “create a heading | write content for that heading | create new heading | write content for that heading | rinse, repeat.”

    We write a big block of text. Sometimes we add headings as we go, sometimes we add them in later. But we see an article as “one thing”–not a “series of distinct blocks”.

    The Gutenberg editing tool was created by people who don’t write content–and have no clue about those that do. And seeing as how “Gutenberg” is being embraced as the new philosophy for WP, I can only assume that this approach of “frack the users, we have a vision” will continue.

    Ironically, Johannes Gutenberg created a tool to bring the printed word to the masses. WP’s “Gutenberg” is making it more difficult to do so.

    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by  Blaze Miskulin. Reason: grammar
    Blaze Miskulin

    (@blazemiskulin)

    @jdembowski

    I missed this in my first read-through

    If it’s the new editor then there are plugins that can address that. The Classic Editor is just one and there are others. Problem solved.

    Gutenberg is not just a new editor. It’s the basis for an entirely new approach to WordPress. This has been explicitly stated.

    Those plugins you recommend are a band-aid for this issue. Problem is not “solved”; it is–at most–delayed.

    Moderator Jan Dembowski

    (@jdembowski)

    Forum Moderator and Brute Squad

    Concise version: Gutenberg has a 72% disapproval rating. It alienates most of the current userbase, is broken as a page-builder, requires significantly more time and effort to achieve the same result, and offers zero value in return.

    You’re using Rotten Tomatoes aggregation as the answer to my question?

    That’s quite a lot of words and a lot of hyperbole. But you haven’t said what the problem is.

    Here, I’ll start.

    I don’t like the floating toolbar by default on each block that my cursor is on.

    I write a paragraph, I hit return and when I begin to write a new paragraph the text on the old paragraph is obscured. I don’t like that. I messes with my flow. I like to read and re-read as I type and the toolbar interferes with that reading.

    WHEW! That felt great to get off of my chest!

    That’s a problem I have with the new editor. It’s tangible, it’s real. And it has a solution. I set my view and enable “Top Toolbar”.

    https://cloudup.com/cDt9ou718TJ

    Problem solved. Is it perfect? No, I personally want that to be the default. It does remember so I don’t have to keep doing that but that’s a problem for me that I’ve solved.

    You and others have been really emphatic. Some have been downright hate posting and that’s just plain worthless IMHO.

    Now back to my question: What is exactly the problem you have with WordPress 5.0.2?

    Keep in mind that no one needs to convince me of anything. I’m just another user like you who can go behind the Forum Bar and clean up messes in the kitchen. Other than that, I’m just a WordPress user.

    Moderator Samuel Wood (Otto)

    (@otto42)

    WordPress.org Admin

    Authors don’t “create a heading | write content for that heading | create new heading | write content for that heading | rinse, repeat.”

    We write a big block of text. Sometimes we add headings as we go, sometimes we add them in later.

    Yes, I agree with this. Unfortunately, this is exactly why I think that the block editor is better. Because blocks are not fixed things, they are malleable.

    Type in your long form content. Then go back and proofread it. While you do so, format it. That heading that you typed into a paragraph block? Switch it to a heading block. Set the size of it. Those links you forgot to add? Add them easily by highlighting the text and pasting the link right over the top of them. The placeholders where you wanted to insert images? Click the + button above them and add the image.

    Or, if you like to add things as you go, use the quick selection mode. I come to a heading area, I type /head and hit enter, then type in my heading. The block is autoselected and right there without needing to touch the mouse at all.

    But we see an article as “one thing”–not a “series of distinct blocks”.

    Exactly. All the stuff you’re describing is why the block editor is a *better* editor for writing. Because you can write and write and write without anything stopping you, and then you can edit and format and organize afterwards. The blocks don’t matter until you’re editing and no longer writing. When you write, then you can just write everything in paragraphs like you did before, and not need to worry about formatting until later. It splits things into blocks for you to make that later editing much simpler.

    Blaze Miskulin

    (@blazemiskulin)

    @otto42

    When you write, then you can just write everything in paragraphs like you did before, and not need to worry about formatting until later. It splits things into blocks for you to make that later editing much simpler.

    Unless things have changed in the past 3 weeks or so, “write everything in paragraphs” isn’t an option–unless you mean “write each paragraph as a separate block”.

    And… I don’t wan’t it to “split things into blocks”. I don’t want “blocks” at all. “Blocks” are counter-intuitive to how I’ve been writing things for the past 45 years.

    It splits things into blocks for you to make that later editing much simpler.

    No. It is not “much simpler”. In no way is it “much simpler”. It is, in fact, needlessly complicated. It’s adding layers of complexity to what should be simple HTML.

    I wrote my first professionally-published work about 30 years ago. Over the past 15 years, publishing in WordPress (and coaching others in how to do so) has been a significant aspect of my career.

    I joked with a friend of mi Becane–who is an accomplished novelist–that I probably write more words in a day than he does (though his is much better). Because, on a productive day, I might write 10k words.

    I am very aware of the tools available to me, and I am very picky as to which increase or hamper my efficiency.

    Absolutely nothing about Gutenberg is “much simpler”. And nothing about it is more efficient. If it were, I’d be one of the first to adopt and recommend it.

    Don’t tell me what’s “the best way for me to write”. It’s a fair bet that I’ve been writing longer than you’ve been living. I’ve had plenty of time to develop my workflow. And you coming in and insisting that your new-fangled whatsit is suddenly superior to the centuries tried-and-true does not make me change my mind.

    Moderator Samuel Wood (Otto)

    (@otto42)

    WordPress.org Admin

    @blazemiskulin I’ve been at this longer than you have.

    Unless things have changed in the past 3 weeks or so, “write everything in paragraphs” isn’t an option–unless you mean “write each paragraph as a separate block”.

    And… I don’t wan’t it to “split things into blocks”. I don’t want “blocks” at all. “Blocks” are counter-intuitive to how I’ve been writing things for the past 45 years.

    Why does that matter? No, really, please be specific. Why do you care? You can type continually and it makes blocks and that doesn’t matter. Why do you think that having blocks matters, exactly?

    It’s adding layers of complexity to what should be simple HTML.

    Why should users need to know HTML? You and I know it, because we’re old hands at this. But somebody writing text should be able to insert an image without having code thrust in their way to do so.

    What is the fundamental, basic, problem you have here? That’s what I’m looking for. If the blocks don’t interfere with my writing ability, then why should I care how the backend is organized? It’s an interface. Nothing more than that.

    You seem to be opposed to the very idea of blocks on some deep level that I do not understand. I want to understand. Please, explain. What is it about blocks that upsets you so much? I love them myself. They bring deeper things to the surface level where they can be manipulated. They expose features and functionality that makes the editor better, as I see it. They give you more control, not less.

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 22 total)
  • The topic ‘Gutenberg is the wrong direction’ is closed to new replies.