Support » Requests and Feedback » Feedback about closing topics presumptuously

  • Resolved Philip Ingram

    (@pingram3541)


    When a topic is closed by an admin/mod there is very few options for recourse, in fact I think none, I may be wrong and if so I’d like to know please.

    To my knowledge there is no direct way to contact the individual that closed the topic, request a review, re-open the thread…it is very much “set in stone”, done, move along please, kind-of-experience…unless you want to seek them out by some other means.

    …but what about when the admin/mod simply makes a false interpretation supporting their reasoning for closing the topic? It can feel very totalitarian of the platform to shut one out in such a fashion without any further dialog allowed or provided.

    We made a decision and the decision is final.

    Sure, I can create a new thread I suppose…but is there a better, friendlier way to address this problem? Doesn’t WordPress in it’s mass ecosystem of features and plugins allow some form of member/admin interaction in these circumstances?

    For example, here is a past thread of mine in which it has become locked with no further discussion allowed based on the presumption that my inquiry is regarding a paid “Pro” product and not the free open source version found here.

    https://wordpress.org/support/topic/fatal-error-plugin-update/

    First, the plugin author voices that they see that I “ALSO” have the paid version installed and suggested opening a ticket on their private system for priority support, but the support request really was with the free version NOT the paid version.

    Next is the .org admin/mod that locked the thread assuming I was asking for support on the paid product, gave me a little slap response on the wrist of what is allowed and then locked the thread.

    Basically the plugin author set the stage for this and the admin made what I would call a simple misinterpretation of my OP. And besides my issue was already solved anyway right?

    Wrong! The issue for me is when I came back to share what I found as the real source of the problem so that others could learn and avoid and/or know what to do, I was shut out from being able to update the thread with that information nor link to another thread where open dialog was again allowed.

    I’ve since shared the issue on GitHub and resolved this but thought I’d share my experience not to nitpick but to bring awareness to the little things that can improve our daily experiences, if we take the time to recognize and consider them.

    Thanks for allowing me to share my thoughts on this.

Viewing 6 replies - 1 through 6 (of 6 total)
  • Moderator Jan Dembowski

    (@jdembowski)

    Brute Squad and Volunteer Moderator

    I’m sorry you don’t appreciate my tone but after reading this post and your closed topic, there’s not much that would happen differently. I wasn’t particularly curt or unfriendly in my reply.

    There are a few reasons topics get closed. I’ll get to your case last.

    1. They age out past 3* months and are closed automatically.

    Edit: It’s 6 months but there was talk of it going to 3 months.

    Or at least that usually happens; I’ve cleared out spam in older than 3 month topics that were not closed and the system closed it right after that. Weird.

    Your topic is 6 months old and would have been long closed already.

    2. Run away topics.

    Topics do not belong to plugin authors or people replying. A topic belongs to the person that opened it. When other people help that original topic starter then that’s fantastic. When other people hijack the topic? Not so much. People are asked to start their own topic. When that doesn’t happen a note is left and the topic is closed.

    3. “Pro” or “premium” code topics.

    That’s your case as the author indicated with this reply to your topic.

    I see you are using Elementor Pro, Please contact our support ticketing system and not this forum for our premium support.

    I was reviewing the replies and left this note.

    For pro or commercial product support please contact the author directly on their site.

    As the author is aware, commercial products are not supported in these forums. As you are their customer I am sure they will have no problem supporting you there.

    Yes, it’s a form letter and it’s used often. That plugin author is very good and attentive about pro version topics. He knows that those not only do not belong on these volunteer forums and directs users to his site. I wish all “pro” plugin authors were as attentive to that as he is.

    https://wordpress.org/support/guidelines/#do-not-post-about-commercial-products

    Part of “no commercial products here” is volunteers here do not have access to that “pro” code. The other part is that when an author takes your money and then fobs users onto the volunteer forums here is not fair to the other plugin/theme authors who do play by the rules.

    There’s a very small percentage of people (thankfully!) who get a “pro” version, let the support lapse and then try and use these forums for “pro” version support. That’s not fair to other users or the plugin authors who are trying to make a living. Those topics get closed too.

    Pro topics will continue to get closed when found. There’s really no such thing as “I ALSO have the paid version installed”. You do or you don’t. In that case you did.

    You could have started a new topic and demonstrate that you were not using the “pro” version but you elected not to. People have done that and that’s permitted. They’re using the version on this site and that’s what these support forums are for.

    I’m glad that the author fields issues on Github and you were able to sort that out. But these forums aren’t like that. It’s a support forum for the code hosted here and it has a narrow scope that works well. Could it be improved? Of course. There’s nothing made or done by people that can’t be improved.

    But leaving pro version topics open here on these forums isn’t an improvement for here. Users pay for the pro version and that should include more direct support from the author on their own site.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by  Jan Dembowski. Reason: Fixing bad spelling and even worse grammar
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by  Jan Dembowski.
    Moderator Samuel Wood (Otto)

    (@otto42)

    WordPress.org Admin

    Hi. I’m Otto.

    Let’s be perfectly clear here.

    These support forums are intended for users, by users, to help one another out.

    If you have an issue with a plugin, especially a non-free plugin which we do not host here, then your topic is not recommended to be posted here. You’re welcome to try, but when our moderators deem that it is “too far” for these forums, then they will close it.

    You are not welcome to try again. You are not welcome to argue against the moderators decisions on this matter. And for that point, you are not welcome to post here at all unless we decide that the conversation, as a whole, is helpful to other users.

    Basically, you only have the ability to post here in these forums so far as we give you that ability, and as far as it helps other people having similar problems. When a conversation goes too far off-the-radar, or gets angry, or otherwise becomes unproductive, then it will be shut down, and it will stay shut down.

    And if that means that users get banned from these forums, then that is exactly what will happen.

    These are *support* forums. You are welcome to post here if you have problems, and people are welcome to help you with those problems. By all means, we not only support that behavior, we take time and effort out of our very busy days to answer questions and help people. As long as you’re helping people, or being helped by other people, then you are very welcome to be a member in these forums and on this site.

    But, the moment you “post angry”, or in any way impede the discussion by being a “bad actor”, then it will be shut down, hard. That is a feature, not a problem. These forums will remain helpful and useful to the maximum amount of people, at all costs. You do not have the right to argue your points here to the point that people are being angry at each other. That goes for all users, both users of plugins or themes and authors of them.

    Be civil, or post on your own blog instead.

    Also, this is not a legal forum, and legal arguments will be shut down without mercy. We are not lawyers. If you need actual legal advice, then find one of them and ask them. There is nobody on this forum qualified to discuss legal matters, only their opinions, and do not take any post in any other way.

    Hi Jan, thanks for the really in-depth reply and I’ve truly learned a bit more even considering I’ve been coming to this water cooler since very early days when Matt was still writing his own themes, can you believe 15 yrs already!

    Also please know I never felt like you were curt or unfriendly with me, you’re one of my favs here btw =)

    1. They age out past 3 months and are closed automatically.

    Thanks for explaining this and pointing out my return 6 months later essentially diminishes questioning the original intent behind the post getting locked. I had a strong sense that I’ve gone back to some fairly old posts and added contributions but maybe I’m thinking elsewhere like StackExchange or GitHub, we bounce around a lot. But regardless I am now keen on this. TY

    2. Run away topics.

    Totally get this and agree (outside of fringe misinterpretations) it makes sense. Leaving a note suggesting to recreate a new topic, that is also very helpful.

    3. “Pro” or “premium” code topics.

    This I also totally get. I am also very intimate with this plugin and it’s paid product as well. I’ve contributed to both and written customizations of which I am fairly good at discerning whether an issue is with one plugin vs another and I assure you it wasn’t the paid product in this case and I think Ben led you to believe that w/ his response (also most likely a canned script).

    I realize now I would have been better off just not mentioning Pro at all and deleting it from the installed list, it would have never come up and reduced your workload by at least this one thread =)

    “There’s really no such thing as “I ALSO have the paid version installed”. You do or you don’t. In that case you did.”

    I also now see how using the word “version” is a big fail on my part. My bad.

    You did not know that Elementor Pro is indeed not a replacement version of Elementor but a completely separate Add-On plugin. One doesn’t replace the other but one requires the other. Also, it was disabled (as mentioned in the OP).

    Personally I love the plugin, Ben and his team but I also know that public support often yields much different results than behind a closed system and having a public value of sharing the knowledge with everyone.

    I totally get why dogs need to bark but sometimes because of the bad actors, the not so bad actors get a little roughed up in the process and I’m learning to have thicker skin.

    Ultimately my only intent was to suggest a way to address issues where the OP feels it was closed under the wrong pretense and it’s not very obvious what (if anything) could be done about it, even for a old timer who’s been here a while.

    Cheers and thx again.

    Hi Otto, we’ve actually spoken before on more than once occasion, very respectfully I might add, I’m just not as active in core/trac as I used to be many years ago.

    Not sure how we got on this track and rereading my OP and my 2nd response I’m bewildered on what came off this way to you but I surely intended nothing more than a respectful discourse of my experience and how things might be considered for improvement to user experience. My only point, it’s 2018 and there is no way to address this issue, to the point that in my attempt to do so I’ve agitated two of the mods I’ve looked up to for many years and in turn they’ve doubled down on exactly what my message was all about.

    Please read my closing sentence in the OP, does that sound like an angry guy to you? How about the paragraph before that where I lay out that my intention is not to nitpick but promote ideas for improving experiences?

    I feel as if I’m accidentally being perceived in-like-of the many trolls I help defend against on the forums here myself.

    In fact, respectfully, your response is a perfect example of what I was trying to explain, a simple misinterpretation *could* have heavy handed results with not much in the way of knowable options for recourse. In this case an even graver interpretation as I wrote nothing harsh outside of using the word “totalitarian” in which you actually helped further define, yet I’ve crossed a line somehow trying to bring attention to these unique conundrums that DO very much occur here.

    I am all for the community, sharing knowledge, being kind, courteous, respectful and mindful of the rules and moderators but we also need a way to easily identify how to contact an admin in these few circumstances (and without worry of retribution please).

    Moderator Jan Dembowski

    (@jdembowski)

    Brute Squad and Volunteer Moderator

    You did not know that Elementor Pro is indeed not a replacement version of Elementor but a completely separate Add-On plugin. One doesn’t replace the other but one requires the other. Also, it was disabled (as mentioned in the OP).

    No, I knew that. 😉

    It doesn’t change anything because that’s still a “pro” support topic. Had you mentioned that “I’ve got a site <URL> that has the same problem and does not have the pro version on it” that may have been different. The topic could have focused on the non-pro site.

    But again, that wasn’t the case and that’s why that topic was closed. As I mentioned the author of that plugin is really great about that difference and sends pro users to the right place.

    I see. I think I now know how to avoid this in the future thx Jan.

Viewing 6 replies - 1 through 6 (of 6 total)
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