[resolved] Features gone - why? (28 posts)

  1. galinastgeorge
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Quite a few functions in the text editor in WP version 3.9 are gone (the whole row in fact). Any reason for it? Also, why did you remove some of the advanced editing functions for images? I need to make a margin for my picture, and cannot do it. When I need to log in when the session times out, the login fields are on the very edge on the left, and I don't even know if I am seeing it all. Not happy with this version at all.

  2. Please don't make so many posts. It makes it hard for us to answer you.

    The row isn't gone, click on the kitchen sink icon.

    The image editors will be coming back in the form of a plugin.

    The session timeout layout sounds like your browser has cached the old CSS and needs a cache flush.

  3. blazemiskulin
    Posted 1 year ago #

    The image editors will be coming back in the form of a plugin.

    So... What are we supposed to do in the meantime? And why was something so basic removed in the first place?

    Fortunately, I know enough about web-coding that I can go in and fix it by hand, but this seems to be a bad move. Even if there's a legitimate reason for removing the feature from the core set and assign it to a plug-in (something I would debate), there's absolutely no reason to remove the feature without having the plug-in ready, available, and clearly pointed out to the users.

  4. TheWatcher2
    Posted 1 year ago #

    In my opinion, WordPress 3.9 for image editing within posts and pages is a disaster! I used to be able to add borders around images, padding, margins, etc., just by entering data into the image editing dialog box. Now what should I do--code each image by hand? This is a step way back feature-wise. It has impacted every page and post I work on.

    I have a suggestion, how about WP 4.0 going back to coding only with no visual design? Maybe we can go back to DOS while we're at it, too!

    How can I revert back to WP 3.8 so I can get some work done? I will turn off auto-updates from now on.

  5. And why was something so basic removed in the first place?

    Because it actually isn't used by everyone. In fact, the minority of users use it, though it's causing a split in how to handle it with the devs. Some feel the issue is in themes, which should have properly coded in this to begin with and never made you have to, and the others think we should rebuild it and add it into a plugin or core.

    Right now I don't know which way it'll go. The whole modal was re-written so it's not like we can slap the old code in (it wouldn't work anyway, whichis part of why it was removed).

  6. davidmcc3
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Let's hope the devs don't remove every feature not used by all WordPress users ... wouldn't be much left.

    I don't see the issue being in the themes ... when I modify the images using the advanced stuff, it on an image by image basis ... not a general 'add padding to all images'. I don't see how themes could deal with that.

    In any case ... we are were we are today, with thousands of implementations which don't have a way of controlling his without painstaking manual adjustments to images using the text editor. This is not progress.

    I was hoping the image editing would be extended so images with captions can be easily moved/padded ... up to 3.8.3, changing image padding moved the image outside the caption area ... not good.

  7. rawalex
    Posted 1 year ago #

    My vote is "old way", at least for now. Any update that specifically changes the way that existing users have to operate, or changes as a result the way things are displayed is a bad move. Moreover, making such a move without explaining in great detail what is lost is a big deal.

    I use that sort of thing in some places, particularly making blog posts that fit 800 wide with an image on one side and post context next to it. That is done with a standard spacing and a float left or right, depending on where I want the image for a given post, and that was handled in the advanced options area. Losing that would make it very difficult for me to post on those blogs without significantly redoing both the themes and editing every post made, and that is in very plain terms not feasible.

    This is a case where the upgrade is a downgrade, at least for those who might have used the tools.

  8. designsimply
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I noticed a new plugin was just made for adding margins and borders to images after the WordPress 3.9 update in case it helps with that part:

    Most of the other image details and editing features are still there including alignment, link to, image title attribute, image css class, link target (open in a new window), link rel, link class, size (you can also drag to resize in the visual editor now!), not to mention all the edit image features like crop, rotate, flip, and scale. Click the pencil icon on the image then click the "Advanced Options" toggle at the bottom left or the "Edit Original" button below the image to find all of the options.

    CSS can also help a ton if you want to make image margin or border rules that happen site wide so you don't even have to bother messing with that kind of thing on a per image basis. CSS is amazing. :)

  9. rawalex
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Sheri, CSS is amazing - it's also out of the reach of many who know enough to click advanced and fill in the boxes to put a border around an image and not much else. Not everyone is really interested in making edits to their templates, and more so editing CSS which is not friendly to non-technical types.

    It's the sort of change in the core of wordpress that moves them away from the webmaster audience that made wordpress so popular. It's another step that makes it harder for non-techies to run a blog well.

  10. rawalex - On the other hand, preventing users from making certain in-line changes makes it easier for them to later switch to a new theme without the old one looking awful. :/ We're actually trying to keep the non developer hands out of the code!

    Now that said... https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/27932

    I made a trac ticket, since this is clearly fairly large of an issue. We cannot promise EVERYTHING will be handled, or even that my ticket won't get turfed, however it's a start.

    We mark posts that have trac tickets as resolved for sanity. It lets mods and volunteers know we don't have to jump in and find an issue. You should follow the discussion on trac. You can click the 'Watch' button on the trac ticket (it's near the bottom) to get email alerts. If you need to log in, it's the same ID/password as you use for the forums.

  11. rwoonacott
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I personlly agree with everyone on this, there is no reason to change the image editor to what it is in 3.9 this cost me so much time in the past few days, after I had updated all my clients websites, and so on, I lost 3 days as of matter of fact and it was a very stupid move had to restore everyone back to the older version!

    [Nasty rant redacted]

  12. designsimply
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Fair enough (on your point about non-technical users and CSS). It might be interesting to note that the border and horizontal spacing boxes present in image advanced settings before were actually doing work to add CSS on a per image basis for you, but Ipstenu makes a really good point that inline styling like that can make it a lot harder to switch themes later. Because of that, it really is a good idea to select a theme that has image handling that you like to start with if you possibly can.

    I still also think adding a little bit of CSS using a custom CSS plugin is an enticing solution to this problem, and I hope some people consider trying it out even if they don't feel they're super tech savvy! You can totally start small. Plus, using CSS to make small modifications to how a theme displays images (i.e. remove image borders) will save you a ridiculous amount of time if you were using the per-image settings to do that for every image before.

  13. rawalex
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I think marking this as "resolved" sort of doesn't cut it.

    Sheri, the issue is that many people have spent years building up blogs and work flow that involves doing these sorts of things, based sometimes on custom themes or things that they have created themselves. It's not easy to say "go back and edit 1200 posts so that you are compatible with our new vision, oh and change your work flow and methods too!". That doesn't work so well. General rules of software is to support backward compatibility as much as you can, and suddenly ripping a significant function out of wordpress and then thinking everyone will suddenly learn CSS to handle it is not simple.

    Oh, and for what it's worth, the CSS to have different borders and spacing around a number of different images isn't exactly quite as simple as all that for most people to figure out. If you are thinking of doing a custom css setup, it might be better to have something that defines an image type, and defines it's parameters in a similar manner to the pre-3.9 advanced method. Basically, custom image tag, border, spacing, padding, extra code... and then allow the user to select a "custom image tag" to apply to their images as they add them into a post. That may be functional, mostly because you obscure the nasty CSS code and replace it with simple to maintain items.

  14. designsimply
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I agree it's not easy. In cases where past habits did get settled into, a plugin like http://wordpress.org/plugins/advanced-image-styles/ is a good route in the short term.

    Let's watch https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/27932 because it submits the concerns raised here to the core WordPress project for consideration.

  15. Edit: Ha! Sheri beat me to it by at least 90 seconds. ;)

    Just out of curiosity (honest) does that plugin posted earlier address that functionality?


    The reason I'm asking is that since I do not use that feature myself I am not really qualified to answer that question. But I do think if that functionality can be restored that way then perhaps user's workflow can be restored.

    That's really the important part and I think everyone should keep their eye on that ball.

    Quoting MIka above:

    Now that said... https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/27932

    I made a trac ticket, since this is clearly fairly large of an issue. We cannot promise EVERYTHING will be handled, or even that my ticket won't get turfed, however it's a start.

    These topics are important but they typically get marked resolved when a ticket is raised. Also the original poster can of course mark this topic unresolved as well.

  16. karelles
    Posted 1 year ago #

    The Advanced image styles plugin partially fills in the blanks, but misses the mark. Additionally I'm concerned, both in the short and long term, that the developers will start dumbing down WordPress core, removing features that they regard as "only used by a minority of users" and forcing that minority to resort to plugins that may not provide the same functionality (like the Advanced Image Styles plugin), may slow down the site because of plugin overload, forces users to pay attention to one (or more if more are needed to restore needed functionality) more plugin that needs to be updated, has the potential to cause plugin conflicts and forces people (like me) who support dozens of users to retrain dozens of people and make sure the plugin is installed on dozens of sites. Even using ManageWP, that's a chore.
    Although I do use CSS to establish a baseline of runaround for each image based on its float, there are always images that require individual handling for border, padding and margin. The nice thing about the old functionality was that you could enter the values and then edit in the field and it was even easy to teach. Trying to teach inexperienced users to go to text mode and add all the border, margin and padding info with all of its variations is just not gonna happen.
    For me this is simply not trivial, nor is it mitigated completely by the release of a third party plugin, despite best intentions.
    Frankly, I was so disheartened by this "upgrade" experience, I thought of the possibility of throwing in the towel, selling my beautiful dual screen Mac Pro system and going and raising chickens and goats.

  17. rawalex
    Posted 1 year ago #

    "In cases where past habits did get settled into, a plugin like http://wordpress.org/plugins/advanced-image-styles/ is a good route in the short term."

    Sheri, that is sort of intentionally missing the point, don't you think? There isn't any good solid reason to remove the functionality from the core to start with (except it made it easier for someone to code an upgrade with new winky blinky features, I suspect). It seems really insane to remove a feature and kill off one of the ways that (apparently) a significant amount of power users were using to write blogs without any real notice. I mean, it's the sort of "upgrade" that makes me NEVER take a .0 upgrade from wordpress, because there is always some magic catch that wasn't clearly discussed.

    "These topics are important but they typically get marked resolved when a ticket is raised"

    Wouldn't it be better to mark it as "Ticket raised" or "SEE TRAC ####". Marking it as resolved sounds like you have a solution, not just that you have accepted it as an issue.

  18. rick111
    Posted 1 year ago #

    v3.9 is a mess.

    1. Open link in new window for images no longer works in many cases. Cannot mark the box

    2. There is no text sizing capability and it is gone from TinyMCE advanced

    3. No border can be placed around images.

    4. NO really new features, just rearrangement of old result in a major version.

    Please someone let me know what the alternatives are because this is not going well. It's time someone puts out a WP compatible core we can migrate to. I am tired spending my time in forums. New version breaks this plugin, this plugin breaks this version, and a lot of this crap.

  19. Andrew
    Bawk bawk moderator
    Posted 1 year ago #

    rick111, could you continue the discussion of your Text Resizing and Links Opening in New Windows on the threads you created for them?

  20. @karelles Thanks for that feedback, it's important to keep it positive and productive. Just chiming into multiple topics doesn't really help especially if you're not directly effected by this. ;)

    By providing that input you can help sort this out and hopefully a solution will be found that can meet your requirements.

    The Advanced image styles plugin partially fills in the blanks, but misses the mark.

    Functionality wise can you describe/explain what's missing with that plugin? Again I've not used those options in the past so your explanation can be really valuable.

    Yes adding a plugin or multiple plugins may not be an optimal solution but it's a start. Right now by finding out what's lacking for you between 3.8.3 and 3.9 and if that plugin brings that back may help you and other users.

    That really should be the target for these topics.

    Additionally I'm concerned, both in the short and long term, that the developers will start dumbing down WordPress core, removing features that they regard as "only used by a minority of users" and forcing that minority to resort to plugins that may not provide the same functionality

    That's entirely valid and why that trac ticket exists.

    Ever hear of that expression "a camel is a horse designed by a committee"? Opensource projects sometimes are like that. When something is removed it's not that the patch was submitted with bad intentions (and I get that you are not saying that) but decisions like that fall under "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

    Not all issues can be addressed but determining if that plugin does bring back that functionality 100% is a big start. The rest really can be worked out or chimed in via the trac ticket. That's how the development process works for WordPress and I hope you can provide that input.

  21. rawalex
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Jan, one of the problems of moving this from core to a plug in is that the core will continue to evolve with no consideration for the plug in, it will no longer be a player in future directions or decisions. As of today, that functionality is no longer part of wordpress, but if you want to FORCE it with a plug in, you can make it happen for now. However, at some point in the future the core will change again, the person who made the plug in will no longer maintain it, and the functionality will be lost forever.

    Pushing those who use that functionality off to a plug in is basically a sedative to make us stop thinking about the problem. By the time it crops up again, the answer will be "we removed that from core 3 versions ago, we can no longer re-integrate it".

    I see where it's going, and it means plenty of disrupted work flow for those who were using that functionality.

  22. karelles
    Posted 1 year ago #

    The 3.8 core version of the Advanced Image options provided 2 fields for margin, horizontal and vertical, and when you entered pixel values in those fields, would display those values, written as css, in another editable field. In that field you could extend the statement by differentiating left from right and top from bottom. I taught the users I support to write margins as margin: toppx rightpx bottompx leftpx; They got that. One could also add padding (say to create a white edge, like a photograph, pre-digital) and very specific border info, like color and style and thickness, per side.

    While the new plugin does offer 4 fields for margin and a single field for border size and color, it doesn't show that editable field - so there is no ability to manipulate padding or control border by side. Acknowledged, most of the time that's not necessary, but that's always been one of the things I've loved about WordPress - it's common sense flexibility and many different ways to reach the same goal. Sure I can edit in the text editor. It just takes longer. I just don't need companies making my life more challenging; believe me, it's challenging enough.

    There was also a field for changing the source of the image - not something I encouraged users to do, but often it was faster to go in and change the source code there than to delete the image and re-add it, or again to go into the text editor and edit the tag, just depended on where you are in the process. That's not included in the plugin at all.

    Also the percentage scaling was a quick way to make adjustments - not perfect but quick - and often a way just to see what percentage adjustment an image needed to look right.

    All that said, my broader concern is the long term prospect of WordPress developers using plugins to compensate for crippling features in the core, while at the same time exhorting users to slim down their sites by reducing the number of plugins used. The plugins I use on every site, security, SEO, etc are pretty cooperative and widely used, but I've also experienced weird conflicts and that only gets worse the more plugins you are FORCED to use.

    I've been using WP since around 2.5/2.7 and especially since 3.0 was released, I've been an enthusiastic proponent, moving my clients from a mix of static sites and Joomla sites (and one renegade Ruby site) to WordPress with good results, BECAUSE WORDPRESS WAS CONSISTENT (Joomla drove me crazy with their wild veering roadmap and "upgrades" that were full-on migrations) and seemed to actually care about the needs of its users - the full range of users, from php developers and power users to moms blogging about their stretch marks (Full disclosure - I'm a mom with stretch marks (unblogged) as well as a power user). I've based my business on accommodating that range so I spend a significant amount of time in support, another reason I've come to rely on WordPress' ease of use and consistency. I understand it's not the WP developers' responsibility to consider my business model and mental health but I would submit, based on the consternation I'm seeing on the forums, that it isn't just me.

  23. karelles
    Posted 1 year ago #

    And what rawalex said...

  24. I understand it's not the WP developers' responsibility to consider my business model and mental health but I would submit, based on the consternation I'm seeing on the forums, that it isn't just me.

    I'm not a WordPress developer or code contributor and while I think you got this already I just want to make this clear: I'm not trying to wind you up or mess with your state of mind.

    That never hurts to repeat BTW. ;)

    That said can you consider posting the details of what's not there to that plugin's support forum as a feature request? As you know you can already switch to the text editor (and I hope you keep me honest here, I've not had this problem) and while that's not the solution you're looking for it is an option.


    This is an issue for some users and the forums are one way of measuring that. And no one wants your mental health impacted by version upgrades. ;)

    As to future development of WordPress and what stays, goes, gets changed, etc. that is something you can get involved with if you like.


    I've not contributed that way but the process is very open and *checks* 267 people contributed to this latest release. It is a way to try and get involved and help with the development direction.

    It's also not for everyone (did I mention I don't contribute that way?) but it is one way to contribute.

  25. JustAsking
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I would like to add my voice to those requesting that the ability to add space around an image be incorporated back into the WordPress core.

    I am training a new client today. They have no coding or html experience. I am NOT going to teach novices to add code around their photos to keep that space.

    With this change, now I will have to go into each client's website and figure out the CSS that works with each theme to add this space, so it will be added automatically. Of course, that will add extra space around the images already there. So I guess that means I have to go back to each page and manually remove the code from the previous WordPress versions. This is a nightmare.

    I have been able to persuade people to switch to WordPress because it's supposedly easy to use. Now, with this function, it's no longer the case. This is a great example of programmers not thinking like end users.

    Please put this function back into the advance editing options, or media library options.

  26. karelles
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Yes, Jan, when I have a few spare minutes I can do that, but it's still missing the point(s) about moving core functionality out to a plugin that may or may not continue to be developed, conflict with others, etc etc.

    You're not winding me up, etc. I was plenty wound up the other day but regret my angry outbursts. I can be a hothead but would prefer the calm, rational approach. I still am frustrated but I'm not looking for my torch and pitchfork. Besides, I don't have time.

  27. rwoonacott
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I have been reading all these post and it is plain to see that everyone is very upset with these changes and I can see why. I have always trusted WP when updating our clients sites, and OMG! this last time we had to go back in and roll the server back before the day we updated the site, lucky us it was only one day! I have contacted everyone I know telling them not to update the sites, and not to allow any updates until this issue is fixed.

    In my own opinion, why fix something that wasn't broken and hasn't been broken? And who the heck was the wise guy that thought this all up, and oh yeah that plugin this guy is talking about in here? well hate to tell you this, that plugin doesn't even come close to what it was before!

  28. webeminence
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I'm using CSS classes going forward to add margins to images similar to what karelles was describing above.
    Don't let CSS scare you!

    I'm not sure why so many people had issues with old sites? The update didn't remove the inline styling on old images I don't think. It just removed the ability to add it in the future via the image editing button.

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