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Default Template Defects (46 posts)

  1. Ryan Boren
    WordPress Dev
    Posted 11 years ago #

    I accidentally deleted a post or two with my fat fingers. Thus, this change. Sorry.

  2. Matt Mullenweg
    Posted 11 years ago #

    Don't worry Ryan, I can restore the deleted posts, doing so now.

  3. Root
    Posted 11 years ago #

    There have been far too many fat fingers, and it has been going on for far too long. Posts have been moderated without notice, deleted without explanation. Now we get to the root of it - a third cat. Threads which are mysteriously unavailable for long portions of time, but then reappear. That aside the way this thread has been set up as a users against the dev type of thing is extremely damaging. Matt has been far too defensive. If you do not want to here the truth then do not ask. Your effort to make the contributors look stupid by dissing their ideas is pathetic. You will undoubtedly win this battle and the war. But will WP get the interface it deserves.? I for one have had more than enough of it.

  4. James Huff
    Support Team Rep.
    Posted 11 years ago #

    Root, calm down. Matt is responding to all feedback with his own opinions, and Ryan has apologized for accidentally deleting your post. You're way out of line.

  5. danielck
    Posted 11 years ago #

    Now about the default template:

    Kubrick is more asthetically appealing than compared with the classic template. But usage of images post as a limitation for those without expensive graphic editing software. The less expensive PaintShop Pro < jasc.com > can open psd files. However, intensive use of CSS really scares newbies.

    My suggestion for the next default temple in the future release:

    1. Something that is simple yet elegant.
    2. Users need to edit one file to change the colors of elements.
    3. Use CSS rather than images. Keep images to a minimum.
    4. Offer PSP (paintshop pro) file on top of PSD files as image SDKs in alternate download.

    this is crazy but I'll suggest anyway...

    5. Create a user interface ontop of the theme editor:

    Instead of opening a CSS/PHP file to edit the coding, hide the harsh reality from newbie and non-programmers by offering an interfaceto change the page elements.

    Say for example, if user want to set header from default skyblue to green, only need to select a color from drop down box or specify his own color. The click apply and the CSS file will be updated. The same goes to font face, font size, font & link colors, background... etc.

    Most blogers are not programmers or designers. All we want is to blog. It is true that installation took 5 minutes. However, learning curve took (more than) 3 months for me and I am still learning. Fortunately, there is codex.

    So if WP is to keep to the famous 5min install tagline, learning curve should also be in 24 hours. Would like to see future WordPress release is not only easy to install but also easy to learn and use.

  6. Mark (podz)
    Support Maven
    Posted 11 years ago #

    danielck - Roots decision to leave WP is NOT down solely to this. Having his blog destroyed by a random passer-by IS.
    Do not fudge things.

  7. danielck
    Posted 11 years ago #

    my apologies.
    I edited my poste

  8. James Huff
    Support Team Rep.
    Posted 11 years ago #

    BTW, Root, my apologies for losing your site. I wasn't responsible, but I know how it feels, and it really does suck.

  9. Cyndy Otty
    Posted 11 years ago #

    "5. Create a user interface ontop of the theme editor"

    Actually that doesn't sound crazy to me at all. In fact I like the idea, maybe not as part of the Themes menu per se (as the point is to maintain a small and uncluttterd install), but a plugin along these lines could prove very useful.

  10. Matt Mullenweg
    Posted 11 years ago #

    Root, I have no idea what you mean by "a third cat." Please save the drama for another thread, this is about improving the default WordPress template. You cannot "diss" an idea, but it's perfectly healthy to debate an idea, which is which this whole thread is about. I suppose it's plausible that Ryan is part of some giant conspiracy revolving around you, Kubrick, and world domination, but I imagine he (as I) has better things to do.

  11. Root
    Posted 11 years ago #

    Well there has obviously been a third category of contribution. Posted, deleted, and mysteriously held up, accidentally deleted, drifting in and out, reappearing sometime later. This allows you to claim that X has only had one thread /post moderated in the last 3 months. It may be unrelated. It may be a glitch in the forum but it is a very unfortunate one. And I find it incredibly discourteous that you are trying to suggest the experiences of many forum goers are simple paranoia. I have to say I have not found any of the responses on the default convincing. I do not want the points raised here to be *dealt with*. I wanted them implemented. There is no justification for departing from web standards design if WP wishes to retain any credibility in that arena, and if it wants to be supported and used by people who are interested in web standards design. Sadly the tone of this thread, plus the unrelated but very serious security issue have convinced me finally that this is not any kind of dialogue which I wish to be part of any longer.

  12. James Huff
    Support Team Rep.
    Posted 11 years ago #

    WordPress is not run by Root. WordPress is run by the WordPress community. "I want it now" is something will never be tolerated by these forums, nor by any Open Source group.

    Take care on your journeys, Root.

  13. dolmarit
    Posted 11 years ago #

    I see this discussion is pretty interesting.
    Especially I would say the "CLASSIC" theme is a very good layout to use for as a basic concept to develope other layouts.

    The Kubrick theme is indeed more complicated but not really that difficult.
    I think the idea behind it is not that bad at all.
    It only needs a litlle bit more understanding.

    At the moment I am taking out all code for specific parts of the layout from the index.php for my 3 column design and move it to seperate php files.
    I give them at the moment for example specific names related to their place in the layout.
    I do this to make designing a bit more relaxing.

    Because now I can for example design a 1, 2 or 3 column site easier.
    It is in my idea even possible to move the new php files to a directory below the theme directory to a directory called " ./theme/name_of theme/modules" or maybe even better to a directory called "...../modules" under the WP content directory.

    Now there also will have to be installed some new parameters so everything functions easier for the pages.

    At this time of writing I would have to make some hacks but i don't have much time so anyone ?

    In the meantime there also can be made same like right now a default CSS file which works on several layouts with a description inside refering to the modules.

    Also inside the default PHP files a short description reffering to the " new" modules could be very helpfull.

    And same like mentioned before it will be easier to design and avoid weird CSS mistakes.
    Although there always will be questions.

    Hope this will contribute.


  14. francey
    Posted 11 years ago #

    The bottom line is:

    Newbies don't know CSS. At all. They barely know html. They don't know how to edit images. The more wordpress gets used, the less experienced users are going to be with html (forget CSS, they won't know that...). Go to blogger.com and take a look around. That is who you are catering to.

    Now my piffles with Kubrick: someone who doesn't know programming is going to be hard-pressed to understand the concept of includes. What a new user who doesn't know PHP, who knows some html basics, and who knows how to change font colours via css is going to look at the index.php file first, go, "how the hell do I change my sidebar" and give up.

    Are the includes more efficient? Absolutely, and if you know how to do them and set them up, you should. But the purpose of a default template is not to cater to those who know how to change it. It's purpose is to cater to those who DON'T know how to change it; those who DON'T know html, who DON'T know CSS.

    Those who *do* know html/css, and who understand includes will be able to set all of those things up themselves. They won't be using the default template - they'll be making their own template.

    Just some things to keep in mind.

  15. moshu
    Posted 11 years ago #

    Remove the hardcoded time/date parameters from the template files. Newbies are trying to set their own date/time display in the admin panel and get frustrated when nothing is changed.

  16. minky5
    Posted 11 years ago #

    you don't need Photoshop to open those nifty psd files to play with. I opened them up in Paint Shop Pro ver. 8 and 9 (at $100. far less expensive than PS). Once I saw how everything went together I just opened the orginal jpg or gif images and wrote over them. Far easier that fiddling with the layered psd file.


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