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[Resolved] CSS help: a suggestion.

  • Hi,

    I’m a bit of a CSS newbie. What little I’ve learned, I’ve learned through trial-and-error, and reading the support forums.

    One thing I’ve noticed is that many people ask the same question: how do I change this? Where do I find this? etc.

    A major issue for me, and it seems many others, is simply trying to FIND what line of the CSS to change to achieve what I want.

    It occurred to me that if the style.css for the default theme was better commented, many people’s problems would be instantly solved, and the work of the mods would be halved overnight.

    All it takes is a decent explanatory comment above every line/section of the default CSS, such as:

    /*This controls the page color: replace the default color with another value of your choice*/
    /*This controls the width of the blah-blah-blah*/
    /*”section.featured-post” refers to the xxxx xxxxx*/

    … etc etc… What this would mean is that all the answers are RIGHT THERE in the very file people are trying to edit (or copy into a child theme), saving bags of time going to the forums and searching/posting, and bugging the mods with the same old questions. It also teaches people what things are called, the correct syntax etc, as they go along.

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
  • If you use firebug or chrome’s developer tools, everything is right there already.

    Sure, but not everyone does. Many people new to WP don’t have the knowledge or confidence to get into “developer tools”. What I’m suggesting is just a simple first step for the newbie, without them having to learn how Firebug etc works first.

    The style.css is always going to be up to the theme developer. We really don’t have a good way to enforce that, and honestly I wouldn’t want to.

    Viewing the source code is the best way to show how the pieces fit together. Even if we say ‘This controls width of page’ you still have to look at the source to see what’s being called and where.

    potentweb
    Member

    @potentweb

    http://thescriptingblog.com/google-chrome-console-tool-important-tool-web-developer/

    Wrote an article on how to use Chrome’s console tool. There really is nothing extensive need to learn how to use it. If you can’t figure out how to use firebug or chrome, then don’t know what to tell ya. Pretty straight forward.

    esmi
    Forum Moderator

    @esmi

    All it takes is a decent explanatory comment above every line/section of the default CSS

    In a file that already might be over 2000 lines long? That’s just plain silly.

    What? Scrolling too difficult for you? Poor thing… What’s wrong with having a few more lines?

    It’s still easier/faster than having several windows open at once, and referring back and forth.

    It’s fine if you are experienced with CSS and know exactly what you’re looking for, and how firebug etc works. But everyone has to start at the beginning sometime: why not make it easier for people? Just sayin’…

    esmi
    Forum Moderator

    @esmi

    What? Scrolling too difficult for you? Poor thing… What’s wrong with having a few more lines?

    A few more lines? You’re talking about potentially doubling the size of the file at the very least. Which means that in Twenty Eleven the style.css file could increase to over 5,000 lines. What you’re suggesting would also greatly increase the burden on theme developers (like myself). It’s not our place to teach people how to use CSS. There are far better ways to learn and far better resources than a whole stack of unnecessary comments in a stylesheet.

    potentweb
    Member

    @potentweb

    Why not go learn it???? It wasn’t “EASY” when I learned it and no one made it “EASY” for me to learn it. Nothing is “EASY” in life and if your looking for “EASIER” in web development, then your going to have s**t load of surprise ahead of you. I’m sure many people want to be doctors and lawyers too, why don’t they make it “EASY” for people to become one while were at it.

    potentweb
    Member

    @potentweb

    @esmi “TWO THUMBS UP!”

    LOLOLOL

    You guys are so funny!!!

    I didn’t say people SHOULDN’T go learn CSS: I suggested something that might help them START learning it.

    And yes, it wasn’t easy for you, and it wasn’t easy for me either. But why then should it be equally as difficult for people who come after? Do you actually resent that it might get easier for people? Will that make all your hard work seem a waste of time? ‘Course it won’t! Why do you want to prevent people from learning CSS in an easier way than you did? That’s just weird…

    And esmi, you’re fantasizing: nowhere did I say that every theme developer had to do this with their themes: I suggested that WP could do it on the TwentyEleven (or whatever current) theme. Then people could refer to it. It only has to be done ONCE.

    potentweb
    Member

    @potentweb

    No I don’t resent it, but your asking people who do this for no money to spend more of our time to MAKE YOUR LIFE EASY. So go spend your time and money buy a book, video, whatever that makes it EASY on you and figure it out. This is not a CSS for Beginners site where we hold your hand on our dime and time to make your easy, there are plenty of resources out there that is geared towards that. You don’t go into a McDonalds and demand they carry premium steak dinner’s and grocery to make your life easy so why do it here??

    Most of us have bigger fish to fry and create more features and addon than teach people how to do basic things.

    esmi
    Forum Moderator

    @esmi

    I suggested something that might help them START learning it.

    Again – that is not the job of theme or core developers.

    I suggested that WP could do it on the TwentyEleven

    And you think a 5,000 line CSS file would help? Given that those non-technical users who do edit their stylesheet do so using the Theme Editor, how do you think they’ll react to such a huge (and apparently complex) file? Frankly, I think it will terrify the life out of them and have exactly the opposite effect that you propose.

    Nor will your suggestion have any real use outside of the default theme. The vast majority of users don’t run the default theme on their site, so all of this commenting will be pointless as far as they’re concerned. They don’t want to learn how to use CSS in another theme. They want to know how to change the CSS in their theme. And the best way to do that is to actually start learning CSS using a proper resource like http://www.w3schools.com/

    And what would be the next step? Comment all of the markup to help people learn HTML too?

    It only has to be done ONCE.

    No it wouldn’t. Even default themes are updated and CSS changes made – which would mean new or changed comments. All for what? No one would learn from it because a stylesheet by itself is not a teaching tool.

    We already point people towards tools like Firebug and decent learning resources like http://www.css-discuss.org/ here. Let those resources do their job. They far better equipped to do it than a non-teaching resource like wordpress.org

    If you want to start teaching people about CSS, do so via your own site or blog. That’s what I’ve always done.

    There you go again, putting words in my mouth! Who on earth said YOU have to do it? Did YOU come up with the TwentyEleven theme?

    And you kind of answered my whole point: I know the people on this forum volunteer their services: they’d have to do a lot less work, and waste a lot less time on repetitive newbie questions, IF the default theme had better comments on it. The default theme ITSELF could “teach the basic things”, which would SAVE you guys from having to!

    Gah! I give up. It’s like teaching maths to monkeys. You’re just not seeing it, refusing to see it, and stuck in your little “my way is the best way, because this is the way it’s always been done” narrow-minded view.

    Close topic, delete, do whatever you have to do.

    Andrew Nevins
    Forum moderator

    @anevins

    One thing I’ve noticed is that many people ask the same question: how do I change this? Where do I find this? etc.

    A major issue for me, and it seems many others, is simply trying to FIND what line of the CSS to change to achieve what I want.

    The issue lies with the misuse of WordPress forums.

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
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