Support » Plugin: Plugin Organizer » Bad UI and UX

  • I know it’s a free plugin, and it probably working fine and very handy, but the interface looks like it’s made 15 years ago, and the workflow is too confusing for me. I’m out.

    This is not me being rude or trying to start a discussion. I just want to you to know that a good plugin is not only about tech features. I hope you will be able to improve the workflow, the logical consistency and user interface of your plugin. I wish you good luck, it seems to be a clever plugin.

Viewing 14 replies - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
  • Wow…

    Instead of talking badly, constructive criticism is much more meaningful to everyone involved.

    As a developer it is always difficult to cover all needs.

    Just a performance plugin should dispense with superfluous functions and a super great UI simply means very much superfluous code.

    Please remember that PO should make your website faster. It is not supposed to slow it down.

    In terms of what PO is supposed to do and how WordPress works as a platform, PO is implemented very well and well thought-out.

    But if you have good and meaningful suggestions for improvement, then let’s hear. All other satisfied and grateful users of PO will thank you.

    Eh… I was not talking badly, and my criticism was constructive. At least, in my opinion and my intention. But this is a review section, not a “help the developer to improve his/her plugin”.

    I tested it, found it difficult and very confusing to use, and it looks crappy. I’m not a newbie. I create websites since the late 90s. I also consult companies to imrpove their sites. This is my fulltime professional job. I not only think the design and workflow is bad, I know it. So here’s the “good and meaningful suggestions for improvement”: make sure you improve the UI and UX so that regular users actually can use the plugin and are not confused and annoyed by its admin.

    So if the dev doesn’t have the skills to improve UI and UX, maybe someone will lend a helping hand or maybe he/she should hire to do it for him, I don’t know. It’s not of my responsibility, is it? I don’t have the obligation on WordPress.org to give detailed instructions to devs how to improve their products, do I? Sometimes I do, by the way. But not in cases like this. I don’t have to. I can give my opinion, and leave it at that. Or do you think otherwise? I would love to hear opinions about that.

    Look, we all try out plugins and often we get rid of them right away. Somehow, they don’t meet our expactations. Most of the time, we never bother to contact the dev about it. We install, try, deinstall and move on. This time I have taken the effort to leave a bit of feedback for the dev, so he/she knows why I deinstalled. I expressed my honest and clear opinion because I think that’s the most useful. That’s where it ends for me. I see no reason why you guys pick on me. Don’t shoot the messenger…

    Would it have been better if I hadn’t left feedback about my opinion? So the dev would think we all love everything about the plugin? That wouldn’t help very much, would it?

    You know, if I only would have said something like “this plugin sucks” and giving 1 star, maybe then you could have said something about “talking badly”. But I took the time and effort to write a polite message, while at the same time clearly indicating what I didn’t like this plugin, and giving a neutral 3 stars.

    BTW “a super great UI simply means very much superfluous code.” is really complete nonsense. Should we go back to DOS then? Come on… Systems are improved on UI and UX all the time, WP itself as well. Why can’t we expect a nice and logical UI from plugins?

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  argosmedia.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  argosmedia.

    Well, we are really reassured that we are dealing with a professional from the late nineties. All the more we are looking forward to your professional solutions for your criticism.

    It’s not of my responsibility, is it?

    But you have already understood that WordPress is an open source community, right?

    Of course you should. Just the solutions of a real expert like you are interesting.

    I don’t have the obligation on WordPress.org to give detailed instructions to devs how to improve their products, do I? […] I would love to hear opinions about that.

    Of course you have this obligation. Open source community does not just mean taking, but it means working together on better solutions. It should be mentioned here that Jeff is absolutely open for new proposals, if they can be implemented.

    It is extremely important to make a distinction between premium providers (where such criticism might be appropriate) and authors of free plugins. Especially you as a registered professional should know this.

    You should keep in mind that free software writers spend a lot of their leisure time doing something that helps others. Hour by hour by hour to help you with your business.

    Then come other people who do not want to take the time to deal with the matter and believe to be able to make a judgment. A 3 star rating is not neutral. It is a statement.

    If you really know how WordPress works in the core, then you would know that PO is well implemented.

    PO has more than 10,000 active installations, more than 198,000 downloads and a rating of 4.8 at 154 reviews.

    How many plugins of this type can you prove, so your criticism would be justified, because you can make it better yourself?

    You should think about this fact.

    You should have left the cynicism out, it makes it really hard for me to reply to you. But I’ll give it a shot anyway, because I think it is important to address your ideas.

    I do understand the concept of open source very well, maybe even better than you. Before starting to use WP, I was heavily involved in an open source CMS called WebsiteBaker for about 8 years, contributing to the core, plugins and templates many times. I was also one of the forum admins, supporting users. I spent thousands of hours to the CMS and community, writing in total 2542 posts (I looked it up). Not as a developer, because I cannot code (apart from tweaking it a bit). But I did many other things to improve and sustain the system and community.

    I never ever had the assumption that a user was not allowed to critisize the project or the CMS without also contributing to it. These are two different things. Open source in my opinion is about giving and sharing without expecting anything back in return. And I looked it up, but I can not find any site that says that users of open source software are in any way obliged to contribute anything. I am pretty sure that only a very small number of PO users give feedback, let alone contribute anything.

    Then come other people who do not want to take the time to deal with the matter and believe to be able to make a judgment. A 3 star rating is not neutral. It is a statement.

    If you really know how WordPress works in the core, then you would know that PO is well implemented.

    I installed and tried PO, and took the time to give feedback. A 3 star rating is a statement indeed. It states that it is not good, and it is not bad. And that’s exactly what I think of it. A plugin is more than code quality or number of features. Most users cannot even evaluatue code quality. I myself cannot do that. I never said I have done that, let alone that I “know how WP works in the core”. I actually don’t know, and I don’t need to know to give feedback on a plugin. My feedback is based upon using it, not on evaluating its code quality. I can see a lot of features, that’s what the 3 stars are for. If it had a great looking UI, it would have earned another star. If it had great usablity, it would have earned another star.

    PO has more than 10,000 active installations, more than 198,000 downloads and a rating of 4.8 at 154 reviews.

    Well, that says it all. About 5% of installations are still in use. So 95% are deinstalled again after some time. Hm… I bet there are a lot of users that felt the same about it as I do. It doesn’t look good (and that doesn’t just mean “nice” or “slick”), and it’s complex and confusing to use. Only 154 people of 198,000 installations took the time and effort to give feedback (most of them not saying anything substantial, so where’s the value in that?). Let’s say that about 25% of those downloads come from new users, that’s still about 50,000 people. So only about 0.3% of the users left feedback. I don’t see you raging about the 99.7% of the users that don’t give any feedback at all. No, you pick on the guy that took the time and effort to leave feedback, because he thinks it is important to speak out. The feedback forum is not meant for positive feedback only, nor is it meant for giving suggestions about improvements. Feedback is feedback. Every feedback is helpful for the author. Even a simple “this sucks” is a little bit helpful, because the dev would understand that there is something not so good about his or her work. Feedback like mine, where I say what I don’t like is very helpful for any dev, also without any further contribution from my side. If more people would say what I said, the dev would really start to think “hey, what can I do to improve this”. But as I said: most people do not take the effort to give that feedback, so the dev may conclude the plugin is great in all aspects, because no one tells him what is not so good.

    Your responses to me make me feel I’d better think twice before giving feedback, becasue apparently I’m not free to speak my mind. There seem to be restrictions about what I can say. That’s rather akward for an open source community, isn’t it?

    If I understand correctly, you would promote these rules:
    1. if you like the plugin, you are allowed to use it without giving feedback or contributing to it.
    2. if you don’t like the plugin completely, you are still allowed to use it without giving feedback or contributing to it.
    3. 2. if you don’t like the plugin completely, don’t use it, give some feedback anyway, but without contributing to it, you are a bad person.

    I’m 100% sure that you are not contributing to all plugins you ever tried, nor giving feedback about it all the time. No one does.

    I do understand the concept of open source very well, maybe even better than you.

    Interesting approach. Is not understandable how you get to it, but well.

    Not as a developer, because I cannot code

    I’ve almost thought of that. Thank you for your honesty. This explains the behavior.

    About 5% of installations are still in use. So 95% are deinstalled again after some time.

    No, this is mainly due to hard work on the part of the author for updates and the subsequent downloads of the many satisfied and grateful users. There you confused something.

    The feedback forum is not meant for positive feedback only,

    This is absoult right. But it should be intended for actual constructive feedback. Constructive criticism means comprehensible suggestions for solutions, because we belong to a community that tries to help each other.

    most people do not take the effort to give that feedback, so the dev may conclude the plugin is great in all aspects, because no one tells him what is not so good

    Would you give a look at the forum, where it is very well explained how the plugin is to be used, then you would see that the users give very much feedback about possible improvements and that the author is very interested in implementing it, if possible.

    If I understand correctly, you would promote these rules:

    My rules cover quite well with those of an open source community. Take and give. Do not know what is so difficult to understand now. I thought you understood that better than me.

    I’m 100% sure that you are not contributing to all plugins you ever tried, nor giving feedback about it all the time.

    I seriously wonder how you come to all your collateral. But well, if your world looks like this is so.

    I wish you every success in finding a better solution that brings you as much as PO.

    The basis is of our discussion is this: we clearly have different ideas about the nature of feedback. I think my feedback is fine: telling what general aspects of the plugin need improvement, without telling the author actually how to improve in detail. You seem to have the idea that if you give (partly) negative feedback, you are obliged to give details about how to improve.

    This is a fundamental difference. It’s no use discussing it further, as you seem to suggest too. That’s fine.

    In the mean time I’m a bit disappointed that the author himself didn’t respond. I would like to hear his opinion too. Maybe he thinks you are right, and it makes no sense in providing general feedback without giving practical suggestions. Or maybe he does value general feedback like mine?

    Personally, if I was a coder of plugins, I would love all feedback, short or long, positive or negative. Why? Because most people don’t care to give feedback at all, so anyone who takes the time to give feedback in any form is essentially someone who contributes, however small this contribution may be.

    I was surfing the web and looking for a few solutions to help speed up some sites.

    I do like the idea of being able to control where and how plugins are loaded – the idea of loading pages up with redundant code just doesn’t make sense, right?

    Which is where I got to this plugin. What a great idea!

    I appreciate the fact that open-source means that the product is free, so the developer often has to put a lot of time into maintaining, improving and supporting the plugin.

    I’ve used hundreds of free plugins, some of which have been perfect for the site, some not so much.
    But I do believe that if you put a plugin up to the WordPress Repository, you take that commitment on board. We all know that if a free plugin is awesome (with awesome support), then the ‘pro’ paid version will probably be worth it and we’d be the first to pay for it.

    Somehow I got caught on this thread and decided to read it through to the end.
    The first comment from argosmedia, although not a glittering endorsement of the plugin, was certainly not worth what followed.

    I do understand that when you put heart and soul into building something, when someone else makes comments that aren’t totally positive, it’s easy to let the ego get in the way and read it differently.

    I do believe that argosmedia was actually trying to help the developer improve the product, but somehow what could have been an informative discussion turned into an ego-driven rant.

    Cynicism and sarcasm really have no place here.

    I almost downloaded and installed this plugin, but after reading this, I realised that if I had a problem, somehow it would be all my fault, because clearly the developer is not interested in anything other than praise.

    I too have been coding for many years (about 33) and fully understand the development lifecycle from a commercial and open source environment.

    I wish you well with this project, IndikatorDesign, because I think that the idea is good. But even looking at the screenshots (because I have no intention of installing this plugin) I would tend to agree with argosmedia.

    And I just realised that IndikatorDesign is actually not the author. My bad. Perhaps I should redact.

    Hi ozbassplayer,

    as you have already seen, I am not the author of the plugins. And what you see as cynical and selfish is not so. There is no reason for that. It is meant absolutely serious.

    If someone has been involved in building websites since the late nineties, he has a lot of experience.

    And instead of just saying “I’m out”, it would be much more meaningful for all parties involved to communicate exactly what he finds bad and then provide corresponding constructive suggestions for improvement. I have not written anywhere that bad reviews are forbidden.

    This plugin provides a very good services for its users. The author tries very hard to respond to the needs of the users and to implement all suggestions if possible.

    If a new user comes and sees this review here (which does not meet the plugin and the author simply does not do justice to it), then the chance exists that this new user is scared to take advantage of this great opportunity just because the author of this review has not taken the time to understand how great the advantage of this plugin is actually.

    With this background in mind, please read again my first contribution. Perhaps the word badly was not appropriate, from the rest, however, I did not turn away.

    @ozbassplayer, thanks for your contribution.

    @indikatordesign, I can’t believe you deny having been cynical. That’s either very poor self knowledge or just a silly lie that doesn’t hold 10 seconds. I won’t bother to quote your cynical remarks, just read your comments again yourself.

    Besides, you don’t even respond to the essence of my arguments. Instead you somehow see a need to defend the author of the plugin. He’s working so hard and giving support to this incedible plugin blahblah. Well, I dont know if that’s true or not, and I actually don’t care because it’s not the point, nor is it something I have commentend upon. I have commentend on the quality of plugin as is. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Again: I don’t see why I can’t say I think the UI and UX is bad. It may be a great plugin, featurewise. But if I – as a regular power user – am turned away by poor interface and workflow design, I think it’s in the interest of both the author and other users to say that in a review. Unlike you seem to think I have the opinion I am in no way obliged to give detailed information about how to improve this plugin, especially when I don’t even use the plugin. The author was free to contact me if he wanted to know more about my opinion, and maybe I would have taken the effort to point him to a number of things. But apparently he is not interested, and I am not anymore either

    And really, my 3 star review will scare new users away? LOL You don’t seem to have much faith in them being able to come to their own conclusions…

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  argosmedia.

    That is interesting. I would point out that the development of a plugin costs a lot of work and you do it as a blablah..

    You have admitted here several times that you have no idea how the plugin works, but take the liberty to evaluate it and write an unqualified review about it’s quality.

    And that’s the point. This plugin promises to improve the performance of your website and not to look good. The promise also holds it. It is one of the best performance plugins you can get.

    You are free to express your opinion, that’s fine. And I am free to judge your opinion as unqualified and inappropriate.

    LOL

    I do not know what there is to laugh about.

    I’m sure that if the author of this plugin was really keeping tabs on his work, this discussion would have come up on his radar and he would have intervened before the discussion went pear-shaped.
    That in itself is an indication.

    But I’ll leave the mincing of words to you guys – in argosmedia’s words, ‘I’m out’.

    WebNut

    (@healthy-lawn-dude)

    Very few developers own all the skill sets to cover all the bases of having a great plugin. If it remains free it becomes difficult to hire someone to manage UX design and admin as it is expensive (unless they join up with people who own the skill sets they lack).
    I have always believed that we can learn from each other. Hopefully we can do so without feeling too defensive when criticised.
    Yes, most just dump a plugin (as I have) and move on! Love what this one does!

Viewing 14 replies - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
  • The topic ‘Bad UI and UX’ is closed to new replies.