Support » Alpha/Beta/RC » Admin menu doesn't expand/collapse in 3.3 beta 1. Why?

  • Resolved jonschlinkert

    (@jonschlinkert)



    First, I absolutely love the additions and design changes that have been made to the menus. Thank you for that.

    However, I’m really hoping that the exclusion of the expand/collapse was either an accident or temporary. Usability testing is a big part of my job and I think this is a bad idea. The Admin area of WordPress is pretty rich with functionality, so many people keep the menus expanded while they are working so they have a “global” view of the options. Consider how frustrating it will be for users who are new to WordPress when they install a plugin and have to scroll over every menu option to find where it’s buried, and then they learn that there are two different places where the plugin has changed the menu… Not being able to open all of the menus to orient yourself is a problem.

    On a more personal level, I can’t imagine wanting to continue using WordPress if the expand/collapse isn’t restored, and I currently have close to 500 sites running. The “usablity” of wordpress is what attracted me, I’m dumbfounded how someone thinks that taking away the expand/collapse feature isn’t going to dramatically steepen the learning curve in WordPress.

    Please, please, please I urge you not to remove the expand/collapse feature from 3.3.

Viewing 12 replies - 76 through 87 (of 87 total)
  • @rvlawrence: I couldn’t agree more!!!

    I will just say that I love the new menu system with flyouts.

    The 3.2 menues has a big problem. It makes me scroll. I have custom post types and some plugins that creates a main menu item for the options. For each time a visit an admin page, the submenu stays open, at least until I close it.

    If you don’t like the flyots, just ignore them and click on the main menu item as before. In that respect it’s completely backwards compatible in user experience.

    But it will not let you have more than one submenu open, if you so prefer. That I consider special needs, at the cost of scrolling. Get a plugin to expand the complete menu and be happy scrolling.

    I now work with a lot of WP 3.3 blogs and like the admin a lot. I hate it, when I have to manage the blogs still in 3.2.1. How far down the page do I find the options for a plugin? It depends on how many menu elements I had expanded the last time I was in. Completely unpredictable!

    3.3 is a nice step forward.

    @jason_lane

    I think it’s fair to say that it’s hard to please everybody with any new feature, but it seems to me like 3.2.1 already was pleasing pretty much everybody.

    Unfortunately that’s not true. Just look at @knut Sparhell’s response above. There were a lot of people that agree with him (including me). There’s also something to be said for innovation over stagnation.

    @olyma – Without strong leadership guiding the project, WordPress would not be where it is today (on over 63 million sites).

    @anointed & @rvlawrence

    PLEASE give us an option to revert the menu system back to the old style.

    Give us the choice to open or expand any menus we want.

    The philosophy the WordPress leads use it “decisions not options”. In order to keep the product user-friendly and easy to use we try to have as few options as possible.

    I don’t like how the admin menus are force-collapsing in 3.3 now. I currently have Beta 2 running and my admin menu is stuck on collapsed. Very annoying.

    Ipsentu wrote a great post on why beta is too late in the process for voicing opinions on the UI. It’s definitely worth a read as it will hopefully give you a good view of how the development process works.

    I’ll update my plugin to allow you to expand/contract each item. Persistence will probably be a browser cookie, so it would not persist from your desktop to laptop, but I think it would still work for most of you.

    @aaron Making interaction for users without a mouse harder and removing a user controlled navigation is probably not what most people see as innovation. I can use the admin bar and the main menu in 3.2.1 with my keyboard. In 3.3 both are broken.

    It is never too late to speak about regressions. Community processes don’t stop when a handful of people declare something as done. The ongoing debate about such issues is what made WordPress so great.

    The updated version of my plugin is available (0.0.2).

    @toscho – I’m not sure I agree it’s a regression but if it’s deemed as such then you’re right, beta *is* the right time to sort it out as beta is for bug fixing. However, if it’s just a matter of “not liking” the new way, then that is something that should have been addressed pre-beta.

    The philosophy the WordPress leads use it “decisions not options”. In order to keep the product user-friendly and easy to use we try to have as few options as possible.

    I have an idea, why not add a button to the edit user panel where we can choose to revert back to the old system?

    Wp did it for the admin bar afterall…

    I have an idea, why not add a button to the edit user panel where we can choose to revert back to the old system?

    There are a couple reasons. The first is that we try to keep the number of options to a minimum and didn’t think it was necessary for this. The second is that if we have an option then we need to keep up the code for the old menu system as well as the new one. It leads to bloat and eventually to a system that’s too big to be useful.

    1. Fly-out submenus without option of keeping them expanded all the time suck big time – it seriously abuse my workflow and I’m working with
    few hundreds WordPress powered sites daily.

    2. Cthulhu bless You for plugin which fixes this issue.

    3. But installing another plugin just to restore something that was a standard feature is just pure evil – if less is more (“we try to keep the number of options to a minimum”), why I have to install one more plugin just to alter my menus. A single option would be much more convenient.

    I admire the fascismo of Decisions — Not Options ! in an abstract sense, really I do ( ever provided the effects are remote from me… ), but would it not be simplest for there to be a prominent page on .org listing every plugin, present and future, that can revert an aspect back to that which just worked ?

    That way progress on the one true path can proceed, while those who dislike certain changes can continue ( albeit with additional plugins merely to stay asyouwere ) can run their own blogs as they prefer.

    Personally, I shall not go to 3.3 mostly because of the admin bar, but also this — I like 3.2 as it is; but such a reference page could be of great help to those who do.

    Okay, I’ve been using this ever since 3.3 came out and, after several months I can honestly say…

    I still hate it!!!!

    Aaron…

    It’s not meant to be divisive or elitist. However, the unfortunate truth is that it’s pretty much impossible to please 100% of the people when you’re talking about tens of millions of them

    In this case IT IS possible. Totally and utterly possible. Just keep the old functionality and add the new. It’s not really something that’s hard, the two aren’t mutually incompatible. What you’ve done here is taken something away that didn’t need to be taken. You could still have added your flyout stuff too.

    I realize this will probably make no difference at all, as your minds are obviously made up, but I had to rant.

    People who just post don’t need menus so how about a moron mode for them?

    Any person actually using the backend needs a simple text list expanded for the side menu. No java, images, li styling, or anything. Pretty is useless.

    Now I must hover over every item to see what is there or where the latest plugin went hiding. The new design is absolutely stupid. Period. No fun when you visit dozens of sites that are all configured differently. It can add tons of time to an entire day of WORK.

    Why does marketing take over every industry eventually? Leave usability to those that actually use it!

    I hack the admin style sheet so most goes away on new installs or if I have time. Otherwise this pig is useless. Without the styling it actually can function for those that read and are not limited to pretty pictures like a KFC menu board!

    Fly out sub-menus? Trying to SELL it to a real estate agent or something?

    Come on, get real…this thing does not have to be just a toy, it can actually be more than that. Too bad those who keep updating it can’t figure that out.

    As WordPress 3.3 is no longer in beta, I’m closing this topic.

Viewing 12 replies - 76 through 87 (of 87 total)
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