The HTML 5 specification is still in the draft stage & has still not been formalised. The HTML 5 validator is experimental.
Thread Starter
alsd
(@alsd)
Validation error or not, don’t know what it has to do with HTML5 not being formalized or the validator being experimental.
If you are really interested to dig in more,
I suggest you read up the rel attribute in HTML4, HTML5, XHTML and Microformat and double check the code I posted, find out where has gone wrong. It will help you understand better.
don’t know what it has to do with HTML5 not being formalized
If the spec isn’t formalised, that means it can change at any time. Therefore what was valid one week might not be the next. The HTML 5 spec isn’t expected to be formalised until 2014. If you want nice clean reports from a W3C validator, stick to XHTML for the time being.
Thread Starter
alsd
(@alsd)
Please read up the rel attribute in HTML4, HTML5, XHTML and Microformat and double check the code I posted if you really interested in this issue.
wrong: rel=”category tag”
correct : rel=”category-tag”
correct : rel=”category”
correct : rel=”tag”
correct : rel=”no-follow”
I posted the validation error, even if it passed the validation error it’s still WRONG! The issue is not about the validation error; the code generated is being abused because it doesn’t consider user may want to assign more than one category or moren than one tag to a post. In this case, even just one category assigned it still inserts two tags and it’s wrong because :
1) a rel attribute can has only single word, it must not has space;
2) if the space is removed using PHP, it defeats the purpose of using the rel attribute in this area because “category-tag” has no semantical meaning.
A code like this will further prevent web developers from using attribute selector because no browser can interpret it when a space is presented.
Correct: a[rel~=”catgory”] {color: red}
Wrong: a[rel~=”catgory tag”] {color: red}
rel = link-types [CI]
This attribute describes the relationship from the current document to the anchor specified by the href attribute. The value of this attribute is a space-separated list of link types.
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/links.html
Thread Starter
alsd
(@alsd)
“White space characters are not permitted within link types.”
I am here to report a bug/an abuse or rel attribute, not here to argue with anybody who wants to be right. Hopefully the persons who are in charged of the WordPress core know better.
I am here to report a bug/an abuse or rel attribute
From the W3c site, it’s not a bug, however if you strongly feel that way, submit a ticket to http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ (use the same ID/password used to login here) and report it. If you can do it with a suggested (code) fix, more the better 🙂
Sidebar: I searched http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/links.html for the sentence “White space characters are not permitted within link types.” and came up blank. Can you cite your source on that one?
I checked on http://validator.w3.org and it even said that they were allowed, provided they were in this list:
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/links.html#linkTypes
However that list, as Esmi correctly pointed out, is a work in progress. Says so on http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-rel-values
Thread Starter
alsd
(@alsd)
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/links.html
rel = link-types [CI]
This attribute describes the relationship from the current document to the anchor specified by the href attribute. The value of this attribute is a space-separated list of link types.
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/types.html#type-links
Authors may use the following recognized link types, listed here with their conventional interpretations. In the DTD, %LinkTypes refers to a space-separated list of link types. White space characters are not permitted within link types.
I think this should give everyone enough info to search the HTML5, Mircoformats, XHTML and so on…and what I wrote above stand.
The value of this attribute is a space-separated list of link types.
vs
White space characters are not permitted within link types.
So … great w3 is contradicting themselves. 🙂
ETA – Ooooh no they’re not. What the second bit means is ‘Each link type must be one word, no white spaces.’
category and tag are SEPARATE link types, they’re okay. The only issue is they’re not defined.
Thread Starter
alsd
(@alsd)
FYI, I only posted the above link (html4) because esmi posted it.
My thought is WordPress uses it for both XFN and Microformats In HTML5. You don’t ever find white space in rel or any link type in any of the references, if you ever see web developer using it, it’s wrongly used. Tag keyword is in the HTML5 spec while category isn’t, though it’s not to say we can’t use ‘category’ but we can’t use it in a single rel attribute.
HTML5 Validator isn’t incorrectly flagged it because it’s experimental; it flags it as error because it’s wrongly used – the spec doesn’t allow two separate elements in a single rel attribute. Using PHP to get rid of the white space or substitue it with a ‘dash’ defeats the purpose of XFN and Microformat for the rel attribute because “categogerytag” or “category-tag” provides no semantical meaning.
Esmi didn’t say HTML5 was incorrect, she said, and this remains accurate, that it’s experimental. Which means its not locked and loaded, which MEANS it’s a bit early to start kowtowing to rules that are not yet defined.
Which is all fair.
The microformats are in flux. Today there isn’t one for category, tag isn’t supposed to be used in a link, but that’s changed a few times in the last year already, who knows what will happen in the next three years.
It’s a case of putting the cart before the horse. When we get closer to HTML5 being locked, then it’s the time to fuss. Until then, don’t panic 🙂
Thread Starter
alsd
(@alsd)
It doesn’t matter. Microformats can take all the time it wants to include something to the spec, and HTML5 can take all the time it needs.
What matter is: “White space characters are not permitted within link types.”. It’s clearly written in the HTML4 Spec. In W3C site the most frequent used wordings are “may”, “should”, “may not” and ”should not”. When “not permitted” wording is used, it means what it said according to the spec, and there is no “may”, “should”, “may not” and ”should not” for interpretation.
The value of this attribute is a space-separated list of link types….So … great w3 is contradicting themselves. 🙂
English isn’t my tongue language so I do read the spec more literally, and read more into it with “space-separated” vs “space separated”. The usage of “-” literally indicates the white space (if any) will replaced by a hypen. There is no contradiction.
What esmi said about HTML5 being experimental, in another word, is that it’s an error caused by HTML5 validator and that it’s not a abuse, not a issue (meaning it’s correct in HTML4 and XHTML) – by saying so he/she lightly discard my report. And I do have a tiny bit issue because :1) I did my homework (cross-checked with HTML5, XTHML, HTML4 and Microformats) before I made the post; 2) I don’t know what kind of power a moderator has – this is “Requests and Feedback” forum and I don’t know if any WordPress team read the post or not, or if there is a screening procedure that first needs to pass through the moderator before it gets the attention from the WordPress team. If there is a screen procedure, it’s very bad for the users and for WordPress if the moderator takes a feedback lightly without doing his/her homework thoroughly.
HTML5 being experimental as esmi said it, has nothing to do with “White space characters are not permitted within link types.” REL attribute is not a newly invented element in HTML5 nor in Microformat, HTML4 clearly indicated that “white spaces are not permitted” and it will not changed in HTML5 or HTML6 50 years later.
Thanks for the info on the core.trac.wordpress.org, I was not aware of this place and didn’t know I can use the same user account to file bug report. Next time I sure will go to the right place.
English isn’t my tongue language so I do read the spec more literally, and read more into it with “space-separated” vs “space separated”. The usage of “-” literally indicates the white space (if any) will replaced by a hypen. There is no contradiction.
Ah. That explains a lot 🙂 Okay, the problem is you’re reading it too literally. English is terribly inexact in some cases. (I’m studying French and its making me better at trying to pick the right words!)
In this situation, they use space separated to mean this: Each individual tag must be ONE word, without spaces, as space separation is used to separate individual tags from each other. Ergo ‘tag’ and ‘category’ are (potentially) valid, but ‘house builder’ is not and would need to be renamed ‘housebuilder’ instead.
Does that help?
The whole ‘experimental’ thing is … HTML5 isn’t set in stone. It’s not a finished product. As the only invalidation in the rel tag usage is that we’re using tags not-yet approved, it’s a small ‘bug’, if it’s a bug at all. I’m not convinced it is, personally, since so much of this is in-flux, and it’s premature to say ‘This is wrong!’ when we’re in that state.
2) I don’t know what kind of power a moderator has – this is “Requests and Feedback” forum and I don’t know if any WordPress team read the post or not, or if there is a screening procedure that first needs to pass through the moderator before it gets the attention from the WordPress team.
None at all. Our job is to keep the peace, filter spam, try and help, and that’s it. We screen nothing 🙂 We may go find a dev if we see something, or suggest you take it to trac if we think it should go there, but the development team reads as they like 🙂 This forum is to openly discuss ideas and requests for WordPress.
I realize this has been discussed, I am using a theme that is HTML5 with PHP and to be honest I don’t know a lot of PHP but I am trying to learn. You buy themes, or use plugin that either cause a lot of errors or do not work properly, yet get approved by WordPress that is causes one to think, maybe a new platform in the way to go. But I love WordPress. My latest error which shows up as critical in my editor that validates code and shows up as seen below from W3C is.
Error Line 310, Column 153: Bad value tag[Gallery] for attribute rel on element a: Keyword tag[gallery] is not registered.
…100webhits.com_.jpg” class=”preloader” rel=”tag[Gallery]” title=”100 Web Hits”>
Syntax of link type valid for <a> and <area>:
A whitespace-separated list of link types listed as allowed on <a> and <area> in the HTML specification or listed as an allowed on <a> and <area> on the Microformats wiki without duplicate keywords in the list. You can register link types on the Microformats wiki yourself.
If Google doesnt like bad code is this a real problem or just a W3C problem?
