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WordPress: Developer Edition

1. Bryan Hadaway
   Member

   12345

   I proposed this idea about eight months ago and it was simply straight up deleted. So, I'll give it a shot again and hopefully this time it will at least be left up just to at least gauge how people feel about the idea even if it's only that and is never conceptualized.

   So, the default WordPress installation is foolproof against users overwriting or otherwise conflicting their possible preexisting folders, files, scripts and database tables etc by adding a wp prefix on just about everything, for example:

   /wp-admin/
   /wp-content/
   /wp-includes/
   /wp-login.php

   Now, that's great. Wonderful, I understand that's the way it has to be, nothing here needs to change, no debate.

   But, what about a developer version for designers and developers like myself who now use WordPress as a base for nearly all projects?

   How about a developer edition that is clean and professional, white label?

   No programmer's comments or wp prefixes and logos (both on the login page and in the admin) all over, leaving clean and professional looking:

   /admin/
   /content/
   /includes/
   /login.php

   I love WordPress and would happily pay a yearly subscription for a developer version (as I imagine would be needed to make it possible).

   Now, even if that is never going to happen can we please not delete this idea and at least allow people to share whether they'd like this or not? If for nothing else, for curiosities sake?

   Thank you for all the years bringing us (in my opinion) the best way hands-down to build a website, Bryan

   Posted: 7 years ago #

2. Ipstenu (Mika Epstein)
   Lead Plugin Wrangler

   Wasn't deleted, it was caught as spam. (Right now there are very few of us killing spammers on this section, and we missed yours. sorry about that, I undeleted, but closed since you have this one now, which is IMO better written :) - http://wordpress.org/extend/ideas/topic/cleaner-presentation-of-the-wordpress-package )

   Answer: Probably never going to happen. This has come up MANY times before and every time ... it gets punted.

   There's no reason to spend the time to do it, when you compare that with how much effort it'd take. The cost benefit is too small.

   Posted: 7 years ago #

3. Bryan Hadaway
   Member

   12345

   Just go ahead and completely delete the other one then.

   If it's come up many times before let's not let it get punted this time. Let's keep the idea up for a few reasons:

   1. Find out what kind of demand there really is.

   2. So people don't keep creating this duplicate idea. Let this be the definitive one and just refer people here for now on and change this from Duplicate of another idea to something a little more hopeful. At least something that will allow it to remain under Latest Ideas so people can find it.

   3. Why not have a healthy conversation about it, let people vote on it? Clearly people want it, clearly WordPress stands to make a lot of money off of it. What would it be worth to them to do it?

   Is there not enough money in the world? Is it something the core WordPress developers would simply loathe doing NO MATTER WHAT?

   I know it's a lot nicer to focus on one thing, so how about a premium "WordPress Developer" plugin that hooks into the system and upgrades it to developer so there wouldn't be a balancing act of two versions. It would be something that needs to be activated.

   Like how a single WordPress stand-alone install can also become multisite if activated.

   In fact, instead of a plugin have it integrated, but you need a premium membership to activate it.

   - It's a good idea
   - People want it
   - People would pay for it

   It's completely viable.

   And as you already know the idea isn't going away.

   Let's at least put it on the bench as a Maybe Later.

   Let us throw around some ideas for a bit.

   Thanks, Bryan

   Posted: 7 years ago #

4. Ipstenu (Mika Epstein)
   Lead Plugin Wrangler

   I'm fairly sure they don't care about paying for it. Matt's said, numerous times, that WordPress will be free for ... ever. I hesitate myself to use that word, but it's not mine. (I don't believe in forever as a realistic definition.) (Also I DO NOT work for WordPress, I'm a volunteer :) )

   In the interests of a conversation, though, if you want it seriously considered, then think of this:

   Why is it a good idea?

   What benefits does it bring to the NORMAL user?

   What benefits does it bring to the community, who now has TWO versions of WP to maintain?

   How do you keep down the 'costs' (time) it takes to maintain two versions? (See 'Why WPMU and WP merged' for more on that subject, historically it's a PITA)

   Posted: 7 years ago #

5. Bryan Hadaway
   Member

   12345

   Hi Ipstenu,

   I know WordPress is free and I know you're a volunteer (I see you around) and I appreciate your help. I hope WordPress does and they should be paying you or giving you some kind of perks. Without you it would be pretty quiet around these parts.

   I've moderated for a few WordPress theme companies and get paid for it. I do hope you're making money online in other ways at least. No matter how noble one is or how much something might be done just out of interest we still need a roof over our head and food in the belly.

   I agree with you on all points, I edited/corrected my reply a few times so you might have missed those.

   This would in no way, shape or form impact the integrity of Matt's stand on always keeping WordPress free, I'm not suggesting anything else.

   Also, as I've said this isn't for the normal user, it's something extra for designers and developers that THEY (not normal users with the normal setup) would have to pay for.

   We've eliminated the two version thing, I can see how that might be a nightmare, albeit most companies actually maintain both the free and premium version of products.

   In any case, clearly this would need to be an already integrated thing like multisite that would need to be activated or a completely separate plugin like bbPress that integrates into the system nicely.

   Unless you've been told personally by a WordPress employee to mark these as Sorry, not right now let's at least give it a fighting chance to be found and talked about once and for all instead of dismissed over and over and buried into the abyss.

   I know WordPress makes a killing with hosting partnerships and referrals, but this would be an amazing next step for WordPress besides the financial gain.

   Maybe, it's not even all that difficult. Maybe I could pay a programmer myself to make a plugin capable of this and make a bundle myself?

   Thanks, Bryan

   Posted: 7 years ago #

6. Ipstenu (Mika Epstein)
   Lead Plugin Wrangler

   But again, what's the "good reason."

   WHY do this at all?

   I'm asking honestly and sincerely. The only answer I see is you saying 'because I'd like it.' which ... well sure, valid for you. But sell me :) Sell EVERYONE. Tell us why this is a great idea, or there's no point to it.

   "Clean and professional looking..."

   Looking at the myriad 'professional' tools I use, they all prefix folders like that so as not to conflict with other apps. It's industry standard. Doesn't make anything more or less professional.

   Posted: 7 years ago #

7. Bryan Hadaway
   Member

   12345

   Hi Ipstenu,

   Sorry, I thought it was self explanatory.

   Actually, a lot open source software simply uses clean folder names like /admin/ etc as well. That's not really the debate here though because we're not talking about the core software.

   I absolutely guarantee there are a lot of other people that want this. That are building sites that are a little more serious than personal sites and blogs that want a more professional experience for users/clients.

   This is marketing and psychology 101, users/customers see /wp-login.php/ or /wp-admin/ or the WordPress logo when logging in and it's just unprofessional and borderline hokey.

   I love WordPress and all, but as a hypothetical let's say I went to cnn.com and registered and when I registered I saw:

   cnn.com/wp-login.php?action=register

   I'm sorry, even I who knows better, I would think that's a little silly and unprofessional for a site like that, for them to even allow normal users to see that.

   There are a handful of plugins already to handle "white labeling" WordPress in the admin:

   http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/search.php?q=white+label

   and of course Theme My Login (which is massively popular) which is a pretty solid indication right there. This is just the next step in what people are already doing and want.

   Real professionals care about the details, obsess about the details and user experience down to every last character in a URL, ease of use and pixel in design.

   If you allow this to appear on the main ideas page we can at least let other people find it, rate it and more importantly join the conversation.

   If this was just something I wanted I wouldn't even bother, but I know there are a lot of other like-minded professionals that would love this. But, you already admitted that many people have wanted this before so why do I have to make a case for it? Stop dismissing it, give it a chance and let the idea speak for itself.

   Thanks, Bryan

   Posted: 7 years ago #

8. siteoptimo
   Inactive

   Bryan, you could always use a Htaccess rewrite if you really would want to change the looks of the URLs, no?

   Posted: 7 years ago #

9. Bryan Hadaway
   Member

   12345

   Hi siteoptimo,

   That's a possibility I considered before and checked around and did some testing. Perhaps it's something an expert Apache programmer could tackle?

   But, as far as I could tell it wasn't an avenue worth going down as it isn't an ideal solution.

   I wish this idea wouldn't be automatically marked as "Sorry, not right now" so more people could find it, discuss it and rate it. Then we could throw around more ideas and possibilities instead of it just being buried.

   Thanks, Bryan

   Posted: 7 years ago #

10. siteoptimo
    Inactive

    Bryan,

    I know your problem and feel your pain, that's why (as a developer myself) I often work with the Roots Development Theme for WordPress, where the rewriting is made automatically. You should definitely check it out.

    This is everything it rewrites:
    http://www.rootstheme.com/#clean

    It's normal that they mark this topic automatically as 'not right now'. It would just be too hard to maintain 2 versions, it's better to focus on what's wanted for the big crowd... Don't worry too much. ;)

    Pieter

    Posted: 7 years ago #

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