WordPress.org

Ready to get started?Download WordPress

Forums

Yo, Bring Back Old Image Attributes! (30 posts)

  1. aharvard
    Member
    Posted 4 months ago #

    Not sure if it was deliberate or just a big grand canyon sized oversight, but y'all have removed the ability to play around with padding, margins, etc. in the new 3.9 version's Image Editor. What the frack? Not cool! It's not very user friendly to take away those features, especially for people like me who are coding beginners.

    So ,llease bring that feature back! I've never posted on WordPress's forums ever before - I am doing so tonight JUST to voice my frustration with this feature's removal in 3.9.

  2. Andrew Nacin
    Lead Developer
    Posted 4 months ago #

    If your theme doesn't adequately handle border and padding for you, please try this plugin: http://wordpress.org/plugins/advanced-image-styles/.

  3. aharvard Please give this trac ticket a read and do provide feedback regarding that plugin.

    https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/27932

    If that plugin does address your concerns can you please let us know?

  4. John
    Member
    Posted 4 months ago #

    For what is worth, I found also this one that is supposed to do similar job + shadows: https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-image-borders/

    ... but wasn't able to make it work. At all!
    Only tried on a single installation and maybe others should also give it a try.

  5. justatest47
    Member
    Posted 4 months ago #

    What about showing resolution while scaling? Would anyone want to see this implemented?

    Here's exactly what I'm talking about:

    http://i58.tinypic.com/23kc5fr.jpg

  6. aharvard
    Member
    Posted 4 months ago #

    Andrew et. al, it's not a matter of my theme not being able to handle borders and padding. Because I'm talking about WP's native Image Editor thing. As in, when I am creating/editing a page or post and I go to click on "Add Media." The image editor that pops up doesn't have options to augment images anymore.

    I'm not installing a plugin for a feature that used to be (and SHOULD be) native to WP. At least not if I can avoid it. I can fiddle with adding margin-right: xxpx; and whatnot, but it's just a hassle and really takes away from the democratic, open-to-all nature of WP.

    Whatever, there are bigger issues in my life than this. But I hope the WP folks continue to make updates that are useful to ALL users, not just coding and WP pros.

    Peace.

  7. libraryhack
    Member
    Posted 4 months ago #

    +1 to aharvard.

    These changes had myself and my client ready to switch to a different CMS earlier today, before I found the plugin that Andrew already mentioned above. (And, we've been using WordPress for over 3 years, so this wasn't an issue we considered lightly.)

    Now that the plugin restores most of the lost features that should have been retained in the first place, we'll give WP a chance to correct this huge mistake. And it is huge... I see more complaints about this here on the support site than anything else. I've never felt the need to comment here on the Feedback until now.

    And I am frustrated by the moderators shutting down comments on this subject - such as marking Feedback threads "Resolved and Closed" when they most certainly are not resolved. For instance...
    http://wordpress.org/support/topic/major-problems-with-image-editing-in-wp-39?replies=15

    It will be resolved when WP puts back all the functionality that they took away. Not when a plugin is found that restores some features that were lost. It shouldn't be necessary to install a plugin for such basic needs.

  8. aharvard
    Member
    Posted 4 months ago #

    Libraryhack, you are completely 100% right. We shouldn't have to use a plugin to restore basic functionalities, especially functionalities that make WP easy for people to use, regardless of how much basic coding experience they may possess.

    We will get this overturned!!

  9. calsnoboarder
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    I'm not sure why such a core function was removed, I'm sure there are reasons... and the idea that "theme doesn't adequately handle border and padding for you" is really just a cop out... I create custom themes and I set up css to apply borders and margin around images, but here's the thing... sometimes, just sometimes, i don't want the standard margin or border to be applied to an image... sometimes I need either more or less margin applied to a single image for a specific layout on a single page... the old version of the image attributes allowed me the freedom to customize margin or borders... using a plugin to accomplish what was part of the core wordpress experience for many seems broken... ideally development of a content management system is one of addition, not subtraction.

  10. arcray
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    Please please - we must have this core function back. My clients use it extensively.

    I have moved everything from Joomla specifically because my clients find wordpress a doddle to use, but this is a massive retrograde step.

  11. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 3 months ago #

    There was no functionality change with title attributes; you can still add them.
    While percent-resizing is gone you can simply scale the image in the editor, something we'd like to make even better in the future.
    If your theme doesn't adequately handle border and padding for you, please try this plugin: http://wordpress.org/plugins/advanced-image-styles/

    https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/27932

  12. arcray
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    My themes handle borders fine, but what my clients want to be able to do is add borders and decide on their own spacing for images.

    This was so easy before WP went to version 3.9 - was it removed for a reason? Why have to use a plugin for something that a few days ago was integral to WP.

    Please, please can we have borders and spacing back???

  13. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 3 months ago #

    Did you try the plugin suggested above?

  14. aharvard
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    No I didn't add another plugin to my site, esmi, because I have been able to figure out how to alter images by adding style attributes directly on the page or post.

    I feel like a broken record, but WP is being a little tone deaf on this one. I'm not adding a plugin to do something that should be restored as a native WP feature.

    WP is trifling!

  15. arcray
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    I did try the plugin, but it doesn't answer the question as to why a useful feature was removed in the last upgrade. I have 150 WP sites, I really don't want to have to install a plugin on each of these.

    Please - WP 4.0 - can we have that basic but nice little feature back.

  16. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 3 months ago #

  17. aharvard
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    Okay I reviewed the link. And??? The only thing I gather from that ticket thing is that you guys have basically chosen to ignore/"resolve" this issue by telling us to download a plugin.

    I'm tired of going back and forth on this, especially since the mods are just repeating canned responses like robots.

    It seems that the out-of-touch and elitist WP developers win yet again.

  18. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 3 months ago #

    you guys

    I'm sorry but you seem to be under the impression that forum regulars here are part of a developer cabal that is making all of the decisions. WordPress is developed by a community of volunteers. Although I am (and have been) involved in a number of wordpress.org community initiatives, I have not, as yet, been directly involved with core development.

    There is no Cabal(tm) here. Anyone can get involved in WordPress core development via http://make.wordpress.org/core/ There's even a section on getting involved.

  19. aharvard
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    Right. Just like "anyone" can run for president in the US. Please.

  20. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 3 months ago #

    It would seem that you are not asking for assistance nor do you wish to become actively involved in WP core development. Apparently all you wish to do is complain. On that basis, there is absolutely nothing I can do to assist you and I think my time would be best used elsewhere.

    Good day. :-)

  21. aharvard
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    I made a simple and clear request in my initial post - to please restore the old image editor. Or to at least consider restoring it.

    I was not asking for assistance. Had I been, your repeated suggestions to use that plugin would have been sufficient and I'd have marked this topic as resolved.

    So yes, I complained because my request was not appropriately handled. Why not, you may ask? Because at no point in this thread was my request met with a response that explained why restoring the old image editor is unlikely to occur (at this present time, at least).

    In other words, I asked could the old/3.8 image editor features be restored. An actual response (however disappointing) could have been something along the lines of "no, and here's why those features were possibly removed." An even more effective response to my request would have gone on to try to explain how the features' removal could benefit me as an average WP user in the long term, even though it's a short term annoyance.

    Instead, my response was just met with suggestions to download a plugin. I hope you can see how this isn't responding to my request.

    Words matter.

  22. At this time, we will not be restoring the feature. It's actually more complicated than a 'restore' as the whole shebang was rewritten to accommodate other aspects of WordPress. It would basically mean undoing 3.9 at this point which isn't going to happen.

    The features were removed because, as Nacin alluded to, you really never should have had to do this for every post in the first place! Your theme should have properly handed padding and spacing for images. Having to change them once in a while makes some sense, but I've gathered that some people are doing this every time they add an image. That's something you can, and should, set in css for all images. It'll save you hours of work a week.

    And it's with that in mind, that you the writers shouldn't have to do this at all, that the feature was removed.

    Instead, my response was just met with suggestions to download a plugin. I hope you can see how this isn't responding to my request.

    I do want to address a very common misunderstanding with WordPress.

    When we suggest a plugin to restore edge features like this, it's because WP was designed to be extendable for situations just like this, and as developers and users ourselves, we know that the best fix for people is to extend the uniqness of their own site. While you may feel that we're brushing you aside with a 'use this plugin' what we're really doing is directing you to the recommending course of action in a supported way.

    Plugins are okay :) We like them. They're for you to use when you end up being the minority user group (which we all have been at least once). it's annoying, yes,but it's the accepted and encouraged way to handle things here.

  23. John
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    At last some understandable comments with some logic that makes sense. Thanks a lot for this.

    Nevertheless, this approach, that I fully respect, is typical of users that never used such features with images. All users that did use them will tell you that the following statement

    That's something you can, and should, set in css for all images.

    is completely wrong and probably the source of misunderstanding on these boards here and elsewhere and also the reason of such arrogance coming from WP in relation with those comments - that were very often also extremely arrogant, I agree.

    Borders and padding on images follow exactly the same logic as bold and italics in text. You don't really want all your texts to be in bold or italics, isn't it? The same way, you don't want all your images to have borders and/or padding. Of course, many good themes have those options included in their code and that's fine. But NEVER for images inserted inside the text editor! They use those attributes for images showing in category or archive listings for instance.

    Now, what some users want - and that's why they were using those features, is to be able to add borders and/or padding to some images inserted in the middle of texts, inside posts or pages. There are several reasons for doing so and those reasons are exactly the same as those that make you never want to put all texts found in your website in bold or italic.

    What is done is done, but I consider, as many others do, that this was a "miserable error" and I really hope one day a WP guy will only admit it.

  24. aharvard
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    John, you've made one of the best arguments that I've read anywhere around here or online for bringing back those image attributes in the image editor. You're exactly right - they're like bold and italic text. The old image editor allowed users to make stylistic accents to images just like you can do with text.

    I'm now leery of future updates. And I just don't trust WP as much as I used to.

  25. calsnoboarder
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    I am sure some one somewhere thought this was a good idea, even if it was only good for them. As I stated previously, I can (and do) code my theme CSS to have padding or borders or both. And I really don't mind if I have to use a plugin in order to do what I used to do out of the box with a basic wp installation. My only real issue is that the "your css should already do this" isn't really a good reason to TAKE functionality away from the core of WP. If it wasn't causing any problems, why "fix" it?

    I can even hand code borders around images... and hand code margin/padding as well... but... i also build websites for clients who i have convinced to do away with their Joomla sites or their (GASP!) flash sites where they had been updating xml files to make changes to their site... I convinced them that WordPress was really easy to use, that the development team was friendly and helped the community. But when you start removing core functionality because everyone should know how to do x or y or z, that exhibits a level of disconnect between your users and you. That's what I think is the problem that is boiling up at this point.

  26. IAmediaworks
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    I wholeheartedly agree with aharvard on this...

    Here's why.

    On many more than one occasion, I have the need to resize multiple images for a client on a single page - not site wide - to a uniform width. I use the feature CONSTANTLY.

    A perfect example - I have a client who is an artist. She has numerous "series" of paintings... and her scans - and the paintings - are not always a uniform height-to-width ratio. With the old feature, I could see the actual pixel width when resizing, right in the page, so that each image is the same width on the finished page.

    Now, I have to either do it by eye, which ends up with a not-uniform page, or I have to manually resize an image here on my desktop to get the proper dimensions, then manually type them in in text view.

    So there is a valid need to restore this feature... for me anyway.

    Thanks for listening.

  27. rawalex
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    I too tend to agree here, for a bunch of reasons.

    However, I think that the wordpress staff and the users aren't listening very well to each other on this one.

    For users, you need to understand that the source of your frustration is that you have often used this tool to make up for poorer source material, or as a way of making a theme do something that it otherwise does not do. I have used it to "float" images in a post (by adding Float:left in the advance options after setting a border). It's not the "right" way to do it, but it is often the expedient way to do things.

    IAmediaworks, you example is perfect. Varying size images are perhaps better addressed by correcting the images themselves. Yes, that does require some effort outside of wordpress, but the old saw of "garbage in, garbage out" applies. Yet, I understand what you are doing and wordpress should still support it, because it is expedient and a very direct way to solve an issue.

    They are also tools for people who are not in the position to edit the themes or who are not comfortable with creating child themes.

    For the developers and wordpress team, you guys and gals need to step back and moment and have a good think here. Up until fairly recent wordpress history, child themes were not really supported, and correcting display problems by editing the theme meant that you could no longer update the theme without losing your fixes. WordPress itself taught us to use the advanced editing tools for these very reasons. The current and very sudden "fix it in css" mentality goes against everything wordpress has done for nearly 10 years. It's a big shift, and pulling the rug out from under people by removing a tool (without any obvious reason why you did so) leaves them feeling unsupported and out of touch.

    Moreover, you start to create a gap between the "can do CSS / can program" and those who cannot. Fixing it in code or in css isn't easy for people who don't grok the concepts, it creates a high barrier to entry for those who would want to use wordpress, they are now stuck using the themes as presented - or they get to pay someone to fix it for them. That certainly goes against the wordpress way for the last 10 years.

    I also think that wordpress risks running itself into the problems that face frameworks that rely too much on plug ins and external pieces to really work. That risk is that no two installs can ever be the same, and debugging them and making them truly work becomes a nightmare. As anyone who has tried to debug a drupal site someone else created, there is always one or more annoying plugin getting in the way, it seems... and no two installs ever seem to be the same.

    When you remove functionality, for some it creates netsplit. Some people will refuse to upgrade (so they don't lose their tools), and over time that may increase security risks and support issues. WordPress is very a much a "current version support" product, most of the plugins are "current version" if they are maintained. It's not a pretty scenario in the end for anyone.

    Is that the future for wordpress? If so, let us know now, so that we can consider the alternatives.

  28. aharvard
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    rawalex, that was am AMAZING post. I agree with everything you said, 1000%.

  29. IAmediaworks
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    rawalex for president. :)

  30. NickCorcodilos
    Member
    Posted 3 months ago #

    That image padding can be done with a plugin is not the point. The point is that it was quick and easy to do image padding in any theme using the built-in editing controls. Please bring this feature back - it was quick and easy and didn't require adding anything to a WordPress installation. This is an ease-of-use issue, not a matter of whether there's "another way to do it." I think lots of users have made their wishes clear. We'd like the image padding controls brought back. Thank you.

Reply

You must log in to post.

About this Topic