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WordPress Elite? Anyone Used It? Alternatives? (31 posts)

  1. joelwalsh
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    poweryourwordpress.com

    anyone used this thing?

    It supposedly provides a single master control panel for managing X number of WP blogs. Which I think could be great if you are using WP as your CMS and you have multiple sites.

    However, a few reservations about this:

    1. Website looks spamalicious and get-rich-quick-tastic.

    2. Website seems to be encouraging search engine spamming.

    3. Is this kind of closed-source development allowed? When is the line drawn to when you can't use a GPL'd project for your own little private ends? I think a lot of people would be interested in this kind of thing, and having a for-sale version sucks out much of the energy that would go into building this kind of thing for the community.

    4. Does it work?? It sounds great but things that are advertised this way are usually ripoffs.

    Still, managing just about 6 WP sites here I think it would be great to have a single control panel for all of them.

    I'm not talking about the multi-user WP edition; the different installations have to be on different servers.

  2. mattman
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    Hum,

    Seems a bit "spamalicious" to me too.

    I'd stay away from it.

  3. Avoid them at all costs. They encourage search engine spam, and they have employed the use of spammers to promote their $147 bundle. If you really want what they offer, just install the freely available copy of WordPress from this site and install all of the freely available plugins and freely available themes that they offer with their highly-priced bundle.

    http://wordpress.org/download/

    http://codex.wordpress.org/Plugins

    http://themes.wordpress.net/

  4. joelwalsh
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    But is there anything that lets you manage 10 sites from a single admin (different sites on different servers)?

    If you're using WP as a CMS rather than a blog, it does get cumbersome to log into each one individually.

    And how is that you can create a private code project off an OpenSource one?

    Any examples of their SE spam? They can't be doing very well if they still have PR 0 for a site created in August (the last PR toolbar update was in October). A lot of these spammy sites seem to be all hopes and no results (thank the lord).

  5. But is there anything that lets you manage 10 sites from a single admin (different sites on different servers)?

    There is no known way to manage multiple WordPress blogs from one interface. And, if the developers can't figure it out, then I highly doubt that this company has been able to accomplish such a thing. The closest that you will ever get to such a thing is with WordPress MU.

    If you're using WP as a CMS rather than a blog, it does get cumbersome to log into each one individually.

    WordPress was never meant to be used as a CMS. There are better systems, such as Drupal, for that.

    And how is that you can create a private code project off an OpenSource one?

    WordPress and most of its plugins and themes have been licensed under the GPL, and the GPL allows for free use, distribution, and alteration of the code. There is a strong possibility that poweryourwordpress is distributing "WordPress Elite" with plugins and themes which are not licensed under the GPL and carry strict non-distributive licenses. Unfortunately, no one has been willing to investigate this.

    Any examples of their SE spam? They can't be doing very well if they still have PR 0 for a site created in August.

    Their SE spam isn't doing well, because I highly doubt that they have had any sales.

    A lot of these spammy sites seem to be all hopes and no results.

    Exactly.

  6. joelwalsh
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    WordPress was never meant to be used as a CMS. There are better systems, such as Drupal, for that.

    No, Drupal is not much better than WordPress for using as a CMS. The default designs are just awful, it's not as well integrated with RSS, it's not as flexible. Above all, it doesn't have the nice permalinks option (or else didn't when I checked). In the end it's not very good from a usability or SEO standpoint. The same can be said for the other OS CMSs such as Mambo.

    Also, wordpress is officially billed as a publishing system, not just a blog. There are many CMS-style plugins for WP, such as "static frontpage."

    At any rate, I'm using it as a CMS and a simple "you shouldn't be doing that" isn't very helpful.

    I don't see why it would be impossible to create a single admin interface for multiple installations. Why hasn't it been done? Maybe in part because of attitudes like yours.

  7. Mark (podz)
    Support Maven
    Posted 8 years ago #

    "There is a strong possibility that poweryourwordpress is distributing "WordPress Elite" with plugins and themes which are not licensed under the GPL and carry strict non-distributive licenses. Unfortunately, no one has been willing to investigate this."

    I have seen all they do, all that they offer, and they do NOT violate anything at all. I am not associated with them in any way whatsoever but I can absolutely assure you that they are not doing anything underhand - if they were I would have made noises about it a few months ago when I was invited to take a look 'behind the scenes'.

  8. joelwalsh
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    By the way, GPL only allows you to distribute the code if you make it free--charging for it is out of the question. That's the whole point of OpenSource. Anything else is forking the development.

    My guess is that the WP Elite people's arguments would be that they aren't actually touching the WP code, they're just building a sort of accessory that feeds into it but is no more dependent on the underlying code than a web browser.

  9. Mark (podz)
    Support Maven
    Posted 8 years ago #

    I will say it again.

    From what I have seen, WP Elite is NOT BREAKING THE GPL.

  10. joelwalsh
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    "they do NOT violate anything at all"

    So they have, for instance, Semiologic's permission to distribute the Semiologic plugins?

    Even if they do stay within the legal boundaries of the GPL, aren't they violating the spirit of it by using a GPL project as the basis for a closed-source software project?

  11. Mark (podz)
    Support Maven
    Posted 8 years ago #

    I have no idea, but given the interest that was bound to be generated, I guess that the guy did his homework.

    Question: Someone contacts me and says "Can you install WP for me ?" I say "Yes, that £20" and they pay me. I even install some extra plugins. Have I broken the GPL ?
    Answer: No.

    The question was about WP Elite, and I have answered to the best of my knowledge as casting legal doubt on companies is not on.
    If you want a wider debate about the use of GPL software, i suggest you blog it.

  12. joelwalsh
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    OK, I just checked out Drupal again, and I guess they do have nice permalinks and a few nicer designs now. But I swear I didn't see any of that when I first checked them out over a year ago--and once you go with a system, you go with it; it's too much work to retrofit from WP to Drupal.

    Besides, Drupal and the other similar systems are intended more for community sites. There's a lot of stuff in there that would just be bloat if you were just doing a simple content site with RSS feeds and user comments.

  13. moshu
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    By the way, GPL only allows you to distribute the code if you make it free--charging for it is out of the question

    That's not entirely true...
    see: http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html
    [quote] "You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a copy, and you may at your option offer warranty protection in exchange for a fee."

  14. joelwalsh
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    I understand your concerns about veering into libel or harming someone's livelihood. So let me just make this clear: I am not saying that they are violating the GPL. In fact, I just said above that they probably have an excellent argument for not touching WP. I'm just wondering how this thing is set up in its specifics since they don't offer a free-trial download and their website does not exactly inspire confidence. And no, questions of propriety should not be off-limits, especially when a business is skating so close to the limits of propriety in its own marketing materials.

    This is very relevant to the community so I think it does belong here. What are the guidelines for what isn't relevant to these boards?

    Question: Someone contacts me and says "Can you install WP for me ?" I say "Yes, that £20" and they pay me. I even install some extra plugins. Have I broken the GPL ?
    Answer: No.

    You're not distributing software in that case! You're just providing installation services. The GPL was designed to encourage just such a transaction, building a cottage industry of service providers. But it was not meant to set up a cottage industry of private software development for distribution.

  15. skippy
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    By the way, GPL only allows you to distribute the code if you make it free--charging for it is out of the question

    That's not true at all. You're allowed to charge a fee for a GPL product. You just can't restrict what someone does with that product once they pay for it.

    Even if they do stay within the legal boundaries of the GPL, aren't they violating the spirit of it by using a GPL project as the basis for a closed-source software project?

    If someone abides by the letter of the law, then the law has no recourse for violations of the spirit of the law. If the GPL is important to you, and you feel this is an example of an abuse of the GPL, then avoid the product.

    I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. I haven't used the Semiologic theme, but in order to make it fully compliant with WordPress's GPL license, Denis needs to make his product available under the same terms as the GPL. Denis can still sell his product, for as much as he wants, but he may not prohibit his customers from giving their paid-for copies to their friends at no charge.

    http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html
    http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney
    "Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money?
    Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must accompany binary-only release.)
    "

    WordPress wasn't designed to drive multiple sites. WordPress MU can handle multiple blogs inside a single database, but that's not exactly the same thing as a unified admin interface for multiple sites. My vhost plugin might be able to fake what you're looking for, but again you're not exactly using the right tool for the job. Unfortunately, I don't know what other tools are available for this kind of problem.

  16. vkaryl
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    "Also, wordpress is officially billed as a publishing system, not just a blog."

    It's actually billed as a "personal" publishing system, that is, a blog.

  17. joelwalsh
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    Wow, this guy sure has a lot of defenders. So I guess it is kosher to go and buy it? (That was why I was originally posting, to ask about buying it, not just to bash the guy.) But has anyone (podz help me out here) actually seen the thing used in action? It just sounds too good to be true, and like I said, their marketing materials don't inspire confidence.

    To be perfectly clear, I have nothing against using WP in a commercial context; I am using WP primarily in a commercial context (see: UpMarket Merchant Credit Card and UpMarket Website Content). It's just an issue of what is ethical when you are distributing software and plugins. And the ethics is primarily of interest in terms of whether you can trust these people generally.

    "That's not true at all. You're allowed to charge a fee for a GPL product. You just can't restrict what someone does with that product once they pay for it."

    You're saying that this guy has licensed his product under the GPL so that if I buy a copy I can give it away free? Somehow I doubt that; it would make much more sense for him to set it up so that it doesn't touch the WP source code.

    I know Denis releases the Semiologic theme/cms under the GPL, but what Denis does is as much a service as a product so the business model there is different.

    Meanwhile, I don't know of any CMSs that allow for multiple sites on mulitple servers to be administered from a common admin (except for FTP, the original CMS). Anyone know of any?

  18. joelwalsh
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    VK, you could also interpret "personal" as "just one publisher" as opposed to a community site such as drupal.

  19. vkaryl
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    Well, you could - if you want to split hairs about it.... thing is, wp is blogging software. blogs by definition are "personal" to the owner, though some people allow anyone else who wants to to add content to them.

    I'm not a defender of the guy, btw. I was simply addressing one part of your post.

  20. skippy
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    You're saying that this guy has licensed his product under the GPL so that if I buy a copy I can give it away free?

    No, I'm not saying anything at all about what WordPress Elite may or may not have done. I haven't even clicked the link for it, because I'm remarkably uninterested in the controversy. I know I don't need it, I know I'm not interested in it; so I leave it all alone.

    I was responding specifically to your claim that GPL software cannot be sold. It can. If WordPress Elite is licensed under the GPL (I don't know -- I haven't looked), then yes, once you buy a copy you can give it away for free.

  21. Mark (podz)
    Support Maven
    Posted 8 years ago #

    I am not defending what the owner of WP Elite is doing or using the software for. I have opinions but they are not why I posted here.

    macmanx stated:

    There is a strong possibility that poweryourwordpress is distributing "WordPress Elite" with plugins and themes which are not licensed under the GPL and carry strict non-distributive licenses. Unfortunately, no one has been willing to investigate this.

    That seemed to bring the reputation of that company into disrepute because of perceived violations of the GPL. For me, that is improper and as I knew more, I said more.

  22. joelwalsh
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    Thank you, podz, for the clarification.

    If anyone has actually used this software and sees fit to share their experiences here, I would greatly appreciate it.

    It really would save time to be able to manage multiple WP installations all from a single admin.

    Of course, part of the reason I went with WP is that its ultra-light code base makes installing multiple versions relatively simple, and the admin is very easy to use and fast to log into, especially with cookies. But a few seconds here and there do add up.

  23. I don't see why it would be impossible to create a single admin interface for multiple installations. Why hasn't it been done? Maybe in part because of attitudes like yours.

    WordPress is a community-based open source project. Anyone is free to create and contribute "a single admin interface for multiple installations". If you know how to create and contribute such a system, feel free to do so. Why hasn't it been done? Maybe in part because of attitudes like yours.

  24. ifelse
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    "By the way, GPL only allows you to distribute the code if you make it free--charging for it is out of the question"

    What GPL and open-source is about is free as in speech not as in beer. Price doesn't come into it; you are perfectly free to charge for GPL software. Take a look at what Redhat, IBM, et al do. The only proviso is that if GPL software (and derivatives) are distributed, then the source must also be redistributed. Please don't spread misinformation if you're not conversant with the details and technicalities.

    You're saying that this guy has licensed his product under the GPL so that if I buy a copy I can give it away free? Somehow I doubt that;

    I haven't looked at his product or site but if he is redistributing GPL'ed code, modified or otherwise, then that is also GPL'ed and anyone is free to give it away as they see fit (even free if they'd wished). That is an inherent and intentional aspect of the GPL; it means that someone else cannot restrict what was free.

  25. LaneLester
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    \blockquote\Also, wordpress is officially billed as a publishing system, not just a blog. There are many CMS-style plugins for WP, such as "static frontpage."

    At any rate, I'm using it as a CMS and a simple "you shouldn't be doing that" isn't very helpful.\blockquote\

    I'm new on the forum; what the heck are backticks? I know slashes, brackets, and braces, but I never head of these.

    Anyway, I'm very interested in building CMS-style blogs. Can you point me in the direction to get a good start?

    And to get on-topic, I purchased WP Elite, because I have quite a number of blogs to manage. I soon requested a refund, because it seems that if you set a blog up right in the first place, WP Elite isn't going to have much to do.

    Finally to go off-topic again. I would to be able to customize my installs much than I am now. I would like all of my options already selected in the files I upload. I searched the forums, but was not able to find any help for this.

    Lane

  26. What the heck are backticks? I know slashes, brackets, and braces, but I never head of these.

    The backtick key is typically located above the tab key, to the left of the 1 key, and below the esc key.

    I'm very interested in building CMS-style blogs. Can you point me in the direction to get a good start?

    http://codex.wordpress.org/FAQ_Advanced_Topics#Can_I_use_Wordpress_as_a_Content_Management_System.3F

  27. joelwalsh
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    And to get on-topic, I purchased WP Elite, because I have quite a number of blogs to manage. I soon requested a refund, because it seems that if you set a blog up right in the first place, WP Elite isn't going to have much to do.

    Thanks for that--you're saying that WP elite only sets up the blogs, it won't help you manage them all from a single admin? What I want is to be able to go from site to site adding posts and moderating comments without having to re-type in the urls and wait for the thing to load etc. If WP Elite doesn't do that, I don't think I've understood it very well.

    I know with postie you can add posts via email but I want to check them when they go live anyway.

    Finally to go off-topic again. I would to be able to customize my installs much than I am now. I would like all of my options already selected in the files I upload. I searched the forums, but was not able to find any help for this.

    I would be very interested in this, too. What I have done on a couple occassions is just to "move" the original site. That is, I created a blank Mysql database for the new site, then inserted the tables from the old installation, and ftp'd the theme and plugins. Everything will be exactly like your old site.

    One problem is that you will also be porting over all your posts, pages and comments. You can edit this stuff in the mysql file. However, in practice, directly editing a mysql file is treacherous. It is very simple in principle to edit a mysql file, but the devil is in the details--remove a single character that you shouldn't and hte db won't work and the error messages won't be too helpful.

    Other big problem is that it turns into a huge headache if there is any server incongruity whatsoever between the old and new installations' servers (and if you are doing all these sites for SEO you're probably using different hosts for most of them). Worse, the servers can be running the same version of Apache and still these little problems crop up. It can be an issue of server permissions, for instance--once, when I chmod'ed a directory to 666, the whole site went blank, some server security thing (I guess) preventing access. In short, it's a headache.

    If anyone knows an easier way, or a team of offshore programmers who do this stuff well, please do let us know.

    You might think this would be an instance of "WP wasn't intended as a CMS, just a blog, and so you weren't supposed to go around making copies of it." But I have never heard of any CMS, at least an OS one, that makes it all easy to port the installation and make changes to it. If anything, WP is easier on this count since it is so code-light. Of course, I may have missed something, so if anyone knows another CMS that is good for this purpose of creating multiple sites on multiple servers, please do let me know.

  28. Babalao
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    You might want to be careful buying this product. Maybe it's great for some people, but I find that it doesn't fit my needs. I didn't buy it on imulse, I looked it over carefully and I ended up buying it about 3 weeks after I first saw it.

    I installed it today and I decided it wouldn't do the job I needed it to, so I decided to apply for the:
    ----------
    "100% Love it or Leave it Guarantee"
    I don't want your money if you're not satisfied. Test out the system for a full 60 Days. If you don't think the investment has paid back many times, then just send me a quick email and I'll issue you a prompt refund.
    ----------
    What I immediately got in return was this:
    -----
    Hi. This is the qmail-send program at surefirewealth.com.
    I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
    This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

    gary@resellmastercourse.com This address no longer accepts mail.
    ------

    and this:
    ------
    Hi,

    I have been receiveing so many emails - if you need your email answered, please submit your message at:

    http://www.1SupportSite.com

    Otherwise I will be unlikely to be able to reply.

    Thanks,
    Joe Cooper
    --------

    Doesn't look like the product is supported. I doubt the refund guarantee is as good as the sales pitch that surrounds it.

    Babalao

  29. mmg
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    I have bought but not installed WordPress Elite, so I can't comment on it as a standalone product. However, I can tell you that the original owner, Gary Huynh, made many product upgrades and was prompt with technical support. He certainly is not a spammer.

    Unfortuately, Gary started another programming project and sold the product to Joe Cooper, the reason why mail to Gary has been returned.

    Joe Cooper appears to be juggling too many projects. I received an initial email from him, which I almost deleted thinking it was spam, but I haven't heard anymore about WordPress Elite. I tried the support link Babalao posted for Joe Cooper, and got an error message that the key had expired. Too bad.

    Mary

  30. davidchait
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    If you purchased from a site that offers a MBG, and then can't contact the owner to GET the MBG:
    - if you paid by paypal, contest it there. they have policies for doing so.
    - if you paid by credit card, print out the site's MBG, your purchase 'receipt', your bounced emails, and call your CC company and tell them you need to contest that charge.

    Make sure there isn't an active contact method, as both of those will 'slam' the seller in some fashion. But if one guy purchased software from another guy, didn't update the site email links, and doesn't make it easy to find him, well, that's his bad.

    -d

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