WordPress.org

1. robvdl
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #

   Just want to make a silly point. I noticed the new WordPress 1.5 default theme (which is very nice btw) uses JPEG images, when it should be using PNG or GIF instead - for that type of images.

   The total images equal to about 13k, ok, so it's not.. that much, but still, why lossy JPEG?? when PNG would be smaller/better.

   I resaved them to PNG using PSP 7, not even trying to optimize them further, using PNGOUT.EXE or similar and it got most of the images downto as small as 300 bytes, 100 bytes, each, etc...

   ...a total of 6k for all the images combined

   If I went further and used PNGOUT to optimize them more, I could most likely get them down to as much as 4K all together, now would than not be fast :-) and... also losless

2. NuclearMoose
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #

   PNG is not universally supported in browsers, especially if using any kind of transparency. GIFs suck at anything that is a gradient. It's a case of best compromise, really. Regardless, the images are there as a starting point, and you or I can create brand-spanking new graphics in any format we choose! :D

3. James
   Happiness Engineer
   Posted 7 years ago #

   It's actually quite easy to edit the template in order to use PNGs. But, keep in mind what Nuclear Moose said about not all browsers fully supporting PNGs.

4. robvdl
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #

   Sorry, but "PNG is not universally supported in browsers" is untrue. That was years ago now. things have changed.

   PNG is supported in IE 4, 5, 5.5, 6, Mozilla, Opera, Netscape 6+ and many others... so long you don't use alpha.

   - As for Netscape 4, well, if the PNG's are referenced in the CSS, then you can simply hide the CSS from Netscape 4 using media="all" - and no probs at all.

   - As for the slight gamma issue you might encounter in IE, simple... just remove the gamma field from the PNG's using PNGOUT, it does it automatically as it optimizes them - and no probs at all.

   I have created many sites with only PNG's and never ever had any issues with it.

   Name one browser that is not older than about 4-5 years old or is not below a version of v5.0 that does not support PNG's without alpha and I might reconsider - but I do not know of any.

5. NuclearMoose
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #

   "...so long you don't use alpha"

   As I stated in my original comment, PNG transparency is an issue. Therefore, there is still not universal support of PNGs.

6. robvdl
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #

   I know, I am well aware of alpha problems in IE and the like, but to me, that shouldn't mean to choose lossy JPEG compression over lossless PNG compression, if you are not going to use alpha in the first place, as JPEG doesn't support alpha either.

   So there really is no point to still not use PNG after so many years, just because some browsers can't handle alpha. unless you want v3.0 browser support or something - but that is unrealistic

7. NuclearMoose
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #

   "So there really is no point to still not use PNG..."

   Yep, I totally agree with you there!

8. Jinsan
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #

   I don't see it as such a massive issue, as each compression is dependent on content. For example, if I compress one item in a gif, it will come out smaller in jpeg instead, particularly as NM says with regards to gradiants. I used to use transparent pngs until I discovered IE put a white space around them. Most people I found tend to use transparent gifs meanwhile.

   PNG isn't always suitable in any case, but I agree it should be more readily used. Each to their own I guess, you can't force people to change, but transparent PNGs are a big failure in IE6 and once supported in IE7 they should become more used - most people currently use jpg and gif or transparent gifs, they'll move to png it 's completely compatible. Would you use a Windows PC if it only functioned with half the space on a hdd?

9. desk003
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #

   Mass compatibility, or size? Personally, mass compatibility.

10. James
    Happiness Engineer
    Posted 7 years ago #

    I agree with desk003. In the case of JPEG vs PNG, I'd pick mass compatibility over size.

11. RustIndy
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    The argument is simple.

    If you are developing for recent browsers as opposed to older ones (one could arguably say "standards compliant" browsers as opposed to broken ones as well), then feel free to use PNG files, with the knowledge that Internet Explorer does not handle PNG transparency without some hacking (it is possible in many situations, but not always). Otherwise, stick to GIF and JPEG.

    In short, if you are developing for recent, more standards-compliant browsers, and you won't be worrying about files with transparency (or don't feel like messing about with Javascript to get it to work in IE), there's absolutely no reason to avoide PNG files - they work fine :)

12. DarkCryst
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    The mis-information about PNG is incredible.

    If you are not using ALPHA transparency then PNG is better than gif period. There is no arguments to this. None that are true anyhow.

    Errors with certain software (like older version of photoshop) have complicated the issue, but PNG is completely cross-browser compatibile and has been for several years... until you use Alpha transparency.

    However binary transparency (like GIF has) still works fine... and has done for several years.

    I am at a loss to explain the stupidity and ignorance the net displays over PNG files... its downright wierd.

    As for this issue - its still wierd to use JPEG, as even GIFs would have been better for the image type. However as PNG is better all around and supported from IE4 up (!) then it would make sense to use PNG hmm?

13. DarkCryst
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    As for the "more recent" comment - PNG files work FINE in IE4+ and Netscape 6+ as well as all versions of Mozilla, and Safari (there was a problem with Safari incorrectly displaying the gamma chunk when the chunk was mangled - usually in photoshop - but if you use a good bit of software it works fine).

    In short... anything in the last... 8 years displays PNG just as well as GIF and jpeg.

14. georgianlady
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    I have "pngbehavior.htc" on my site to display transparency PNG's in IE properly by forcing it to filter them ... I found it somewhere on the web ... anyhow, it worked great for me in WP 1.2, I made my own smilies as PNG's and it was fine. I have some other PNG graphics I have on my sidebar as well.

    Since upgrading to WP 1.5 the PNG graphics in IE looking at posts, i.e. smilies, aren't loading, but the PNG's in the sidebar work just fine in IE using pngbehavior.htc

    What happens is that with pngbehavior.htc, in CSS the img tag has that file called up.

    When IE loads a page with images, any png's will first load ugly as they do in IE if they are transparents, then they will reload nicely. pngbehavior.htc invokes the alpha filter and replaces the browser graphic reference with blank.gif, but then the browser displays the PNG graphic properly.

    It works still in the sidebar PNG graphics fine, but inside posts, it doesn't work right. The graphic loads ugly and then reloads "nothing at all" it's coded in the page right, there is the img reference there, but something isn't working right. Something in some WP code is conflicting with it is all I can guess.

    The smilies all show up in FF. So do my sidebar PNG's. In IE 6 the smilies don't show up in the end. Sidebar PNG's do show up right.

    I've tried to add css classes in my CSS file. That doesn't change a thing. The fact that the ugly IE version of PNG loads first and then reloads nothing shows that pngbehavior.htc is being used in any case ... but it's just not working right in posts, but is in the sidebar. Most frustrating.

    I have a couple of animated smiles and they are gifs. So only those few gif smilies are working in IE.

    This is bothersome since my tone of writing does depend on the smilies appearing more oft than not. I have no desire to convert my smilies to GIFS.

    Does anyone else use pngbehaviour.htc ... or know how it works and why it's not working in posts and comments in WP 1.5 ... but used to work before just fine as far as I can remember, and does work fine in the sidebar and did before too, just won't work right in the posts, and I really think it used to.

    This is the link to the document about "pngbehavior"

    http://webfx.eae.net/dhtml/pngbehavior/pngbehavior.html

15. vkaryl
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    GeorgianLady, see my post just a bit ago for another solution....

16. 7milesdown
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    PNG's are pretty large files. Some are comparable to JPGs.

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