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[resolved] [closed] Twenty Eleven theme ... are you guys joking? (23 posts)

  1. still giving
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    Twenty Eleven theme ... are you guys joking?

    Are we into creating blogs or venerating (Matts?) photos?

    Have any of you tried looking at the theme in a way most folks now look at the internet ...

    WTF is it with the H-U-G-E pointless, information and content free S-P-A-C-E ... W-H-I-T-E-S-P-A-C-E ... S-P-A-C-E that eats up the entire first screen of most browsers!?!

    I mean, I am sure it looked all wonderfully "kewl" and "Zen" and Apple-like on a designer's 27" iMac during the corporate showcasing ........ but that's not the way the world sees the internet folks.

    OK, flame me down for nothing being amongst the faithful and tell me I can always write my own theme (I will ... I will ... I will HAVE to ... We all will ...) but

      ... the Emperor has got no clothes on.

    Guys, it's about time the core team stepped out the incubator and took a look at what the rest of the world is doing with WordPress.

    </rant>

    Yah ... and as usual ... no one has upgrade the posting options at WordPress.org to include 3.2 yet.

  2. s_ha_dum
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    The default theme is a sample, an example, a kind of a minor code repository, and a fallback if the main theme goes bad. I've never thought of it as something you'd actually use. Maybe that's just me.

  3. Yah ... and as usual ... no one has upgrade the posting options at WordPress.org to include 3.2 yet.

    Cause 3.2 is in RC (release candidate). Cart, horse ;)

    http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/resize-twenty-eleven-header/ can change the header size. I expect this'll end up on the inevitable 'WordPress 3.2 Upgrade Woes' master post.

  4. ZainB
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    I dunno... personally, I think the Twenty Eleven is actually quite nice for a default theme. There are lots of other themes out there which look better but I think the whole point about Twenty Eleven isn't really to compete with these. Although I do take your point about Matt's photos... you'd think he'd have a blog to put these on... :) (saying that, at least he's chipping in with the project - maybe in future people will get to vote on what photos get used as default. Just an idea!).

    From a design perspective, whitespace makes things easier to read. Less clutter, more focus on the content. I know that's not how people end up with things on their sites (with widgets, banners, buttons, adverts and a whole bunch of stuff). Looking at it objectively, it's nice being able to focus on the content.

    If anything, I tend to use Twenty Eleven as a guide to building my own theme. In terms of code, it's got some nice functionality that can be re-purposed to build something better. It's a "showcase" theme that demonstrates what can be done - how you style it from there (with css, widgets and plugins etc.) is where the flexibility comes in.

    For people who don't know how to activate a new theme, it's good that they have something that is easy enough to set up without being complicated.

    It's worthwhile remembering that some of the really cool themes tend to use a lot of scripting and styles which can also lead to problems with plugin conflicts and things not working. They usually have really complicated setting screens too. Who needs the hassle? It's good to have a theme that does the job and is simple to use as a backup.

    Yeah, it would be cool if the Twenty Eleven was super cool looking... but, as anyone who build their own knows, that would take up a lot of time to do. There's the maintenance and the compatibility with releases... Who'd look after it? Well... there's a bunch of people who give up their time to make a difference and contribute. If you want it to get better, why not do the same?

  5. Inposure
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    Problem with third party themes is that they are too complex and heavy, not maintained through updates, non-free, too simple, not quite right or something else.

    Both Twenty Ten and Eleven have all the features most bloggers should ever ask for, and they can be customized with child themes to avoid looking like everyone else's blog.

    But Twenty Eleven has a serious flaw in that the sidebar is not visible on single posts, and there is no template to get around that. You need to do a major hack to both CSS and code to get right on track again, which kinda disables the advantages with the theme.

    Dunno about you, but my regular visitors go from comment to comment with the help of recent comments listing in the sidebar. With Twenty Eleven, they have to add the additional step of going to the front page for each comment. This also puts more and unnecessary stress on the server.

    Whoever came up with this scheme clearly doesn't know anything about visiting blogs, but is a pure design freak without regard for function.

  6. So keep using Twenty Ten.

    Twenty Eleven is meant as a starting point for people. If they don't like, it they don't have to use it.

    Problem with third party themes is that they are too complex and heavy, not maintained through updates, non-free, too simple, not quite right or something else.

    Here: http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/ We have a lot :)

  7. disjfa
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    So keep using Twenty Ten.

    That's not quite the point to make. People see the twentyeleven template and don't get the use of the theme, so they report that here. And that is a reasonable argument.

    When i looked at the 11 template i get the feeling it`s overcompensating in code and yet too minimalistic in the output to the browser. So i am also not likely to get me an 11 template but use the 10 and clean it somewhat to get the same results with less code.

    With 10 i was surprised by the cleanness of the code and easy way to extend to it with childthemes or create a clean new theme with it. With 11 i don`t see that (for me) hapening. Sure, check the functions and steal some ideas. But i wont see me base a theme on it.

    but again, it`s hard to think of the next big breakthrough theme for automatic in a year instead of many years from the theme before 10. Get why they did it like they did.

  8. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 3 years ago #

    People see the twentyeleven template and don't get the use of the theme,

    I don't understand. What is there to "get". You either like the theme and use it or you don't.

    When i looked at the 11 template i get the feeling it`s overcompensating in code and yet too minimalistic in the output to the browser.

    As I understand it, Twenty Eleven is still being developed, so it could change. In what way do feel that it's overcompensating in code? And some of use actually like minimalistic themes.

  9. disjfa
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    I don't understand. What is there to "get". You either like the theme and use it or you don't.

    It's gonna be the base theme. A theme in the theme library you like or not like you said. The base theme is the base of a startup wordpress user. Like the flagship of the code, that's a difference.

  10. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 3 years ago #

    And? The minimalist look of Twenty Ten seems to have been rather popular, so I don't why Twenty Eleven wouldn't be in terms of looks. But you still haven't said why you feel that it's overcompensating in code?

  11. disjfa
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    It`s just a feeling i get with the code and output. Nothing bad and if i had more i shall tell you. But like the ts it's and some other posters in the thread it just feels off. Otherwise this thread wouldn't be here.

    When i have the solution i will post it. But until then, be continued.

  12. Chris Aprea
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    But Twenty Eleven has a serious flaw in that the sidebar is not visible on single posts, and there is no template to get around that. You need to do a major hack to both CSS and code to get right on track again, which kinda disables the advantages with the theme.

    This is simply not true, I'm using Twenty Eleven for my website Future Web Blog and I literally had to add one line of PHP to the post template file. The rest was some minimal editing of CSS.

    In my honest humble opinion Twenty Eleven trumps many of the bloated paid for themes out there today. I won’t go into detail why here, if you want to know my reasons see this blog post.

  13. Andrew Nacin
    Lead Developer
    Posted 3 years ago #

    When submitting a support forum topic, 3.2 is now a valid version.

  14. username required
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    @aprea

    The problem is aprea, 40% of internet users are still at 768 or 800 resolutions, not 27" LCDs. In some markets, 20% or more use mobiles phone to access the internet. Look also at the age demographics of the net and ask yourself what older readers need (25 to 30% over 50 year old).

    Therefore, 40% of your website is saying "beautiful zen emptiness", aka nothing, from which you expect users to have to make the effort to scroll down from page after page after page ... they wont bother. The will go off to another site that is more instantly interesting and informative.

    And I have to say, the images on your web blog are basically faked up to make it look better than it is and text smaller.

    <b>Thank you liangzai ... "Whoever came up with this scheme clearly doesn't know anything about visiting blogs, but is a pure design freak without regard for function."</b>

    Let's me honest, all this started with 2010 and a bit of "adoration for Matt" and his lovely photographs. WordPress has always allowed him a bit of personal whimsy. But if he wants his photographs adored, he should just use one of the many excellent photoblog themes available and leave WordPress for what it was intended ...

    Words.

    As a flagship it is wrong.

  15. username required
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    About as wrong as those stupid and immature Gravatars WordPress insists on us using.

    <--- Is this intended as an insult or are you just forcing traffic over to Gravatar.com to have to change it?

  16. Automattic owns Gravatar. Clearly YMMV, but as these are the WordPress forums, they're welcome to do what they want. On your site, you can change it.

    Not liking the default theme doesn't mean it should be removed. I recall seeing just as many complaints over the years for Kubrick, and how much it sucked as a theme. As with many things, taste is very much subjective.

    If you don't like the theme, change it.

  17. ClaytonJames
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    @still giving

    Are you cereal? Twenty Eleven in it's PRESENT state is a killer on my handhelds. I hope they decide to fine tune it and keep it. The two column dark layout out has to be one of the most unexpectedly appealing, simple, and easiest to read mobile friendly themes I've experimented with to date. As for "Matts photos".... Just change them if you don't like them, mmmmmkay?.

    I will concede that I was not at first all that fond of the round "reply" button, but its placement, appeal and functionality becomes immediately apparent when viewed on a handheld.

    Have any of you tried looking at the theme in a way most folks now look at the internet

    A think a better question might be... "Have you?"

    </MyTwoCents>

  18. The developers also roll out these changes in advance to wordpress.com, where new things like Twenty Eleven get tested out by *millions* of not-savvy internet users. Feedback from that is then used for the public release.

    Going forward, each year will have a new theme, so if you want to see things in 2012, please give input early on in the dev cycle.

  19. maurizio04
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    1024pix wide is and should be the standard horizontal max resolution or better fixed resolution on a theme.
    I hate themes with a fixed and a fluid design that will never work.

    Just do the basic theme at 1024 (980real) and put extra widget outside the space when resolution of user is huge...
    Yes, it is difficult but is the best way...

    BTW, 1024pix at 150% is perfect for a 22inch...the new generations, already deaf for ipod usage will be blind soon for too much browsing with a 3,2 inch screen :-(

  20. username required
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    @ Ipstenu Automattic owns Gravatar. Clearly YMMV, but as these are the WordPress forums, they're welcome to do what they want

    I don't know ... the default Gravatars seems to me to be the dissonant part of Matt's stable. They just don't fit. May be they are meant to be so bad to ensure everyone does upload their own?

    @ ClaytonJames "Are you cereal?"

    Yah. Come on we all know that designers love to look all dewy eyed at their beautiful creations but they require bring back to earth from time to time.

    At least a default option to remove the top banner from all subsequent pages would let folks get to the content.

    Who really clicks on links to see w-h-i-t-e s-p-a-c-e and scroll down banners time and time ago ...

  21. Jason Paul
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    I both love and hate the new theme. It's got the 'correct' focus on content. But by losing sidebars on the single.php you're also losing click opportunities for..well, everything. Ads, your content, blogrolls. Twenty Ten has served as a brilliant framework for many many websites I've designed/developed over the last year. I was expecting Twenty Eleven to be an equally good framework for developing sites off of. But as far as I can see, it's a really great theme for a personal blog but not something you'd want to base a serious website off of. Looking at major sites who have used Twenty Ten as their framework is a pretty impressive list. Guess I'm just disappointed. ooooor Maybe it's worth digging out the code and making Twenty Eleven framework friendly again...hmmm

  22. TimeHealer
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    The huge top banner really needs to go. You rarely see custom themes do that... why? Cause no one wants it!!!!

  23. Chris Aprea
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    @Jason Paul I created a child theme that adds the sidebar back into post pages, you can check it out here. It's VERY minimal code, so don't be discouraged to use Twenty Eleven as a framework ;)

    @TimeHealer There's an option in the admin backend to hide the top banner.

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