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[closed] Time for a split? (9 posts)

  1. mttcrlsn
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    WordPress up until now has enjoyed good success and popularity, however with the recent “train-wreck” final release of 2.5 this success is unraveling. First of all I don’t think anyone here would disagree that 2.5 final was released before it was ready. This is the first release that I have seen many discussion of downgrading and critical bugs and glitches. The Gallery and Image management is a mess if it works at all. Documentation for 2.5 is unfinished and even states as such. Documentation of the files is very unprofessional. Can anyone tell by a quick look which build of an individual file they have? What project it is, who last edited the file or what the licensing has? Coppermine, phpBB, SMF all have this type of information on every file – and yes even Moveable Type has this. The Admin-GUI by no means more accessible or more ordered. The developers for some reason decided to think that everyone uses a screen set at 1024 x 768 and to heck with all others. Functions like drag-drop functions were removed for no stated reason.
    Maybe it is time for a split and to branch the code to a new project.
    (Downgrading my WordPress soon or even moving to something else)

  2. chewru
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    I'm not sure I'd call 2.5 a 'train wreck', but I 100% agree that it was released too fast and did not listen to what appears to be a majority of people who had serious reservations about the change in design.

    The admin functionality is horrible - a solution to a problem that didn't exist. In 1900x1200 I have to scroll? Unbelievable. Same principle with widgets .. was there any large issue with the existing drag 'n drop functionality?

    I don't like what I perceive as a snub to people who have significant quantities of plug-ins. One of the 'dashboard' blogs in WordPress speaks to the fact that the author believes users should just 'get over it' in response to whether a plug-in or theme doesnt work with the new wordpress.

    I don't like that for an in-version update. 2.3.3 to 2.5 shouldn't drastically alter the way these things work. As far as I'm concerned, this could have easily been WordPress 3.0, and I'd be a lot less critical of the gap between the two.

    I'm not 'against' 2.5. I do hope they really fix a lot of tickets in 2.51 and perhaps ease some of the compatibility issues. I still wish they would have gone 2.4 and gradually started introducing some of these new features, but it is what it is.

    I dont think we should abandon the project, but I hope we see some kind of acknowledgement by the coders that they took a lot of creative license with the new version that perhaps was over the top.

    Baby steps.. especially when you have such a massive user base. I love what WordPress represents.. I just think they missed the mark on this particular version.

    Hopefully they come back strong in future versions.

  3. whooami
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    I don't like what I perceive as a snub to people who have significant quantities of plug-ins. One of the 'dashboard' blogs in WordPress speaks to the fact that the author believes users should just 'get over it' in response to whether a plug-in or theme doesnt work with the new wordpress.

    Talk about taking something completely out of context. I assume youre referring to this?

    http://dougal.gunters.org/blog/2008/04/08/upgrade-or-else

    I see comments from people all the time saying that they don’t want to upgrade because it might break this theme or that plugin that they have installed. To those people, I say, GET OVER IT. The security of your site is important. If some theme or plugin is not compatible with a newer version of WordPress, ask the author politely to update it. Or find a replacement. Or live without it. I have in excess of 25 plugins active here. But there’s not one of them that I would hesitate to deactivate when it comes to security of my site.

    Thats advice well taken, and not a snub. A good, swift kick in the ass is what a lot of people need around here - he was a lot more diplomatic about misplaced priorities than I would have been.
    --

    Your comment, I assume:
    You really trivialize plug-ins, but for some, they’re essential components.

    Thats not what he was doing at all. You fail to understand that the greatest of all plugins doesn't mean jack if your site is exploited? How fricken essential is that plugin then? Not very, I suspect.

  4. Ivovic
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Interesting logic there, whoami...

    By that token you could easily argue that the wordpress team should continue to provide plugin compatibility - otherwise they FORCE people to run insecure sites for longer than necessary.

    Also, if the concern is security, and you're also killing compatibility with an upgrade, then it's good practice for the wordpress devs to continue to provide security updates to the 2.3 line.

    2.3.4, 2.3.5 etc to fix any exploits. THAT is what people should be doing - not being forced into junking their plugins because wordpress devs refuse to maintain backwards compatibility between MINOR version numbers.

  5. whooami
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    .. easily argue that the WordPress team should ...

    Actually, I would be more apt to argue that the WP team doesnt have to do anything. I certainly wouldnt use the word "should" in any argument thats applied to software such as this.

    Furthermore, no-one had a gun put to their head to perform this particular upgrade (2.5), and Dougal's post doesnt suggest otherwise.

    Laslty, it's absurd to suggest that people are forced into running insecure sites.. blah blah.

    With that logic, I can justify driving on bald tires based on having to save money and forgoe a vacation in order to be able to buy them. Maybe GoodYear ought to lower all the prices to $10.00 a tire so I can have my cake and eat it too, rather than forcing me to do things.

    We make decisions based on our priorities every hour of our lives. Whether or not to upgrade is just one of those. For the record, thousands of ppl chose not to, knowing full well that their sites are at risk. Thats a decision they make. Not anyone else.

  6. Ivovic
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    now you're arguing against yourself.

    Clearly upgrading should be as simple a process as possible, and arguing against that is just making you look silly.

    WordPress has a plugin interface. Having one then exposes them to extremely logical criticism from people when they go and change it abruptly. Imagine if microsoft changed their APIs all the time!

    ... they don't change them nearly as often as wordpress has, and every one hates them for it anyway.

    you're sounding like a fanboy, whoami - which is great, except for the fact that you can't be taken seriously anymore.

    When you accept -- no, EMBRACE the title of most popular blogging platform, then you must also accept the responsibility to the public that put you there.

    We installed wordpress which made Matt and Co famous. Now they want to screw us every few months by either forcing us to turn off all our plugins, or continue to run older versions which may have exploits.

    No way, champ, that's not the way to win friends and influence people. WordPress may not cost any money, but lets not pretend that it doesn't cost LOTS of time and effort on our part.

    ... We're part of the success of wordpress, for which its creators get due recognition and indirect revenue. We should be treated with respect, because we're fickle little pricks who will just go lend all our popularity to a platform that won't screw us every 6 months.

  7. whooami
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Comparing WP to MS? You pay for Microsoft's products -- with your money comes expectations.

    Further, calling me a fanboy, tempts me to call you a Commie and suggest that you return to the breadlines that you came from.. But I wont, because that would make me sound almost as dumb as you, now wouldnt it.

    There is no "we" here, champ. I make my decisions based on what I want, and I dont flail about, after the fact, try to blame others, or shirk my responsibility for that which is truly mine. I also dont believe that a piece of software, especially one that I am not financially supporting owes me anything.

    I dont believe that anyone using WP has a sense of entitlement. And honestly, if the very best you can come up with is that your bothered that some plugins broke, I have a really big STFU for you.

    Really though, none of that matters, as the OP, which you are not, was addressing something completely out of context. You, not surprisingly, seemingly want to have another argument -- and frankly, I couldn't care less about what you think or have to say. I was addressing him; Dougal's point may have been lost on him, and you, champ, but its not lost on those of us that have been around this community for longer than 6 months.

    --

    If you, see it as such, then you "Dont have to drink the koolaid". And don't let the door kick you in the ass on your way over to pay for Movable Type.

  8. Ivovic
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Wow, what a charming fellow. I wonder how you'd have responded if I'd used one of those terms when referring to you.

    But lets not find out exactly how much of an asshole you can be, as clearly your opinion is invalidated by your inability to grasp concepts.

    You're damned right I believe that the makers of "free" software owe me something. I've been advertising for them for the past few years, I'm damned-well entitled to a little respect... from them, and from you too, you stuck-up redneck.

    I'm not sure why you keep emphasising the word 'champ' as if you're a highschool coach with his hand a little too deep in his pockets. Perhaps it's for the same reason you're getting off on this little exchange.

    I tried to educate you, but you won't have it. If you can't see how the people who bring us wordpress are profiting from that exercise, then you're completely blind. You better believe they owe us something.

    I suggest you ease up on the attitude a little though, tough-guy. I'm happy to engage, but after a while it just comes off a little gay, and frankly you're not my type.

  9. Samuel Wood (Otto)
    Tech Ninja
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Well, that's quite enough of that, I feel. This topic and the rather non-witty banter is not appropriate for a support forum.

    Take it to your own blogs, people.

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