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PageLines
[resolved] [closed] NOT FREE!!! (27 posts)

  1. dave1314
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    This theme is only the Lite version, not the full version. It is misleading. The full version costs $129!!

    http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/pagelines/

  2. Andrew
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Have you tried other free themes?

  3. dave1314
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Yes I have. Pagelines is an excellent theme, but should not be put in the free section if it isn't free.

  4. Samer Sultan
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Why does everything have to be free? If you like the free version of the theme, and want the added functionality of the paid version then pay for it.

  5. caylean
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    It is free as you could use, but if you like to use every single part of it, you have to pay. It is the same like Shareware or whatsoever. First it is free, even nearly everything is to use, but if you like to bulk convert/download/use it, you get the restrictions.
    So all in all, it will be still free, just restricted.

    You saw yourself that Pagelines is a great Theme (i checked it out a while ago and i must admit it IS a damn nice one) and if someone puts that much work into something, he/she/it wants to get a little reward for it ;) and THAN you can use it with all it's functions

  6. This comes up from time to time. *drinks more coffee*

    but should not be put in the free section if it isn't free.

    Theme authors can host "lite" versions of their themes here as long as the hosted version here meets the strict requirements.

    The review process for themes is thorough why not give it a read at this link?

    http://codex.wordpress.org/Theme_Review

    The PageLines theme here is fully functional and not crippled in anyway. It does inform you that a version behind a paywall exists with even more functionality but that is allowed.

  7. dave1314
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Thanks Jan! Am new here and appreciate the civilized nature of your reply. :)

  8. You're welcome. Look around, I think you'll like it here. ;)

  9. azghanvi
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    The theme policy says:

    "All the themes we host here are Open Source. If you want your theme to be proprietary or promote things that violate WordPress' license on your site, the directory probably isn't the best home for your work."

    Pagelines already agreed to open source this theme when uploaded here.

    So, this means we (php devs) can change the code and remove all the restrictions set PHP files and use full features with no cost. I have already nulled other plugins as it comply with above statement policy.

    Do i understand it right? Any comments from seniors?

  10. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 1 year ago #

    What theme policy where?

  11. azghanvi
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Here you go ... this comes when you go to upload your theme on this website.

    http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/about/

  12. Simon Prosser
    Theme Review Admin
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I have already nulled other plugins as it comply with above statement policy.

    Yea seems like you know all about ripping off premium plugins then.

    Sure PageLines is GPL'd you are freely available to edit the files and re-release it as your own theme.

    Where in the statement does it say that 'NULLING' anything is compliant with the GPL?

  13. azghanvi
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    By null i mean same GPL flexi.
    Null was used as a slang, as most people don't know this GPL rule.

  14. Simon Prosser
    Theme Review Admin
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I think you meant something else, i mean looking at your profile does not show any GPL 'flexi' as you put it plugins.

  15. azghanvi
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Look Simon, Be respectful.
    I posted here to ask, if i understand it right?

    I do respect the commercial terms of others and pay where people deserve.

    I read that all things here are GPL, so we should not pay if it works by editing code (and possibly make it public). Correct me if there is something missing.

  16. Simon Prosser
    Theme Review Admin
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Sorry didnt realise i was being disrespectful, if so i apologise. I will quote myself in case you missed it:

    Sure PageLines is GPL'd you are freely available to edit the files and re-release it as your own theme

  17. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I read that all things here are GPL, so we should not pay if it works by editing code (and possibly make it public).

    Sorry but that's wrong. There's absolutely nothing in GPL that forbids the selling of code (theme or plugin) and GPL would not protect you from any legal action that might result from you deliberately distributing a hacked copy of a commercial theme.

    At the very best, it's completely unethical and does not contribute anything to the WordPress community - especially that section of the community that is trying to earn a living from developing quality, commercial, themes.

  18. azghanvi
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    @Esmi, why are you saying it is being hacked.

    GPL allow me to do so. It's legal to revise a GPL code and re-release it.
    I'm doing good development on this theme and making it more useful for community.

    If PageLines wants to remain commercial, they are more than welcome on their own site with a more restrictive license.

    Another dimension, right ?

  19. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Because what you are doing is completely unethical and will cause more long-term damage (rather than good) to the WordPress community. If people don't want to use the Lite version of the theme but don't want to buy the commercial version, there are over 1,500 other free themes that they can use from instead.

    And yes, personally, I would call this a "hack", You are not revising the code. You are deliberately circumventing payment for a commercial theme.

  20. azghanvi
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    They are taking big benefit by using wordpress.org as a big marketing channel and negative factor of being open sourced. If they want to remain commercial, their open source code should be in such standard that could not converted to commercial code. If it is not, it's their foolish technical approach of doing business. Why you guys are defending them?

    What I know now is, till wordpress.org themes section launch a modified license other than GPL, each and every developer is free to change the code (as said by simon). We don't really care for your "personal" decisions and long term risks. We're doing business here. To find best ROI in Lowest Cost is target of every business, in each license they choose.

    Perhaps, Same approach applies for Joomla themes and plugins. I do respect the restrictions of license (if any) in case wp change terms in future.

    Thanks for all the updates.

  21. Probably too late for coffee where I am, but what the heck.

    They are taking big benefit by using wordpress.org as a big marketing channel and negative factor of being open sourced.

    Sorry, but they really aren't. You may dislike what they're doing and that's just not the same thing as being a "negative factor".

    What I know now is, till wordpress.org themes section launch a modified license other than GPL

    That simply is not going to happen and you've not made any case for why that should happen.

    Everyone who is involved in supporting WordPress usually is big fan of the GPL. No one is forcing anyone to use any of themes here including PageLines.

    We don't really care for your "personal" decisions and long term risks. We're doing business here.

    Really? Lots of people who've been helped by Esmi would disagree. You may not care but don't include others in your view.

    Esmi was referring to ethical behavior and that should not even have to be explained. Doing business and behaving ethically should go hand in hand don't you think?

    If you think that intentionally bypassing payment for a commercial GPL'ed theme is "doing business" do you think that really adds value to the community? You'd just be exploiting someone else's work for your own gain (see comment above about ethics).

    You could create your own derivative work from a GPL'ed theme hosted here but that takes real effort.

    Obtaining commercial GPL software and not paying for it is unethical, plain and simple. The GPL is not a license for unethical behavior, it's a software license and that's all.

  22. azghanvi
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Okay, Thanks Jan And Esmi for your time. I don't want to spare more time on it. It brought a lot of learning for me.

    I think ethics question comes if we violate some terms of business. Perhaps for GPL cases we are not doing it at all.

    I just wanted to highlight the risks ...

    1) The truth is that any "commercial" product released under the GPL will not succeed commercially, because the GPL allows anyone who buys the software to turn around and give it away for free.
    http://encodable.com/tech/blog/2006/02/25/Why_the_GPL_is_Incompatible_with_Commercial_Software

    2) "GPL is well suited for use as a marketing weapon"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License#Barrier_to_commercialization

    Thanks

  23. rahul286
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    @azghanvi

    In theory, lawyers can prove anything! So reading articles GPL v/s Business type articles is waste of time IMHO.

    WordPress is successful with GPL. And that is why you are spending time here!
    Automattic, WPMU Dev Premium, Gravity Forms, WooThemes are just few names in case you want more.

    If you can innovate faster than people copying from you, you no need to bother about license & restriction. Just do good work. Everyday! You will get your due.

    p.s. As a theme developer, I do believe pagelines gets some preferential treatment on wordpress.org but that is nothing to do with GPL licensing.

  24. drtanz
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Plugins hosted in the WordPress repository are not allowed to have code which is only accessible by paying, so I believe themes should follow the same rules.

    In a recent event WYSIJA plugin had to separate the 'premium' code included in their repository plugin into a stand alone plugin that can be downloaded from their own site.

  25. dartiss
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I think ethics question comes if we violate some terms of business. Perhaps for GPL cases we are not doing it at all.

    Except this is wrong. If you "violate some terms of business" that's a legal issue, not an ethical one.

    When they talk about doing this being "unethical" they mean that it's morally questionable.

    In the UK we have a big issue at the moment with big businesses avoiding tax. It's completely legal but unethical - by avoiding the tax the UK economy is worse off for it. And so it is here - by hacking the code to unlock the premium features, without paying for it, is depriving the developer of their payment.

    I hope this clarifies things a little.

    David.

  26. wayne23
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I do trust in this community to let me make my points here uncensored!

    Facts!

    • You can get everything on the Internet for free, and if it's GPL it's even legal!
    • Pagelines is GPL! And nothing, nothing prevails the GPL!
    • You can download Pagelines (the Pro version) for free somewhere not here and it's 1000% legal!
    • You won't get any support from it
    • You can remove/modify the Copyright notices (of your Pagelines copy on your servers, on their i am not sure now) copy how ever you want
    • People working on GPL software can't live from air they need to eat
    • If you are buying GPL software you are in some sense, if you will, pay voluntary for the product. There is no 'need' to pay for it. What you really pay for when it comes to 'Premium' stuff in the wordpress universe is support. Support is not GPL and its not free as in beer neither free as in free speech, it's a service you payed for!

    I stumbled upon this and want to say what i think about it. I was, i repeat WAS one of those people who think everything most be free download thats called GPL. I changed my opinion on this once i began to work with GPL software.

    I am working on a Project and if it's ready i want to be paid for the endless hours i put into this, i am forced to build GPL because WordPress is build GPL and other think my work is based in but thats not the reason! The reason is i beleave in the GPL, even in i give all my rights away!

    I am about to form my opinion about Pagelines and i just went to their terms of services and i was WTF

    2. Grant of License to Use the PageLines Framework
    
    2.1 PageLines hereby grants to you a limited, non-exclusive, revocable license to install and use the PageLines Framework on your computer or to use the PageLines Framework via PageLines’ web hosting service. The PageLines Framework is licensed under the GNU License. If you copy, distribute or modify the PageLines Framework, you must do so in compliance with the terms and condition of the GNU License.
    
    2.2 You may not remove, obscure, or alter PageLines’ copyright notices, trademarks, or other proprietary rights notices affixed to or contained within the PageLines Framework.
    
    2.3 You must comply with all applicable law and regulations regarding your use of the PageLines Framework.
    
    2.4 You acknowledge that your license to use the PageLines Framework is only a limited, non-exclusive license. Except as expressly provided herein or in the GNU License, all title and Intellectual Property Rights in and to the PageLines Framework and any copies thereof are owned by PageLines. All rights not expressly granted hereunder or under the GNU License are reserved by PageLines.
    
    2.5 In the event of any conflict between these Terms (to the extent that they relate to the PageLines Framework) and the GNU License, the GNU License shall prevail.

    What about 2.2 they try to tell you you are not allowed to remove the copyright? Even if it't GPL. To me that pure BS! If it's GPL we are allowed to do something very very close to whatever we want as long as it stays GPL and that includes removing and altering the entire software!
    And there it comes, 2.5 Event of conflict, yeah haha there we got one right there! And the GPL prevails! Now i got my opinion. This is BS! Why include this extemely confusing/misleadint/false lawyer language in there if it's suceeded by the GPL later anyway? As long as they have such terms i argue they don't deserve to be on here. It's as simple as that!

    Do it like all the other theme shops, say that you are GPL, end of story don't try to currupt the gpl, try to make people beleave that they have to obey terms that are nulled by the GPL. It's Pathetic the GPL don't gives your the right to this kind if stuff! And you don't need to be a lawyer to understand this. And you, or at least you lawyers know that this is true else you would not put this "In case of conflict" clause in there!
    I would love to get a official statment by one guy of the pagelines team about that.

    There are 2 things i am annoyed of:
    1. This guys who think they must get everything for free no matter how hard the work was to get a product like this out. And like i said i was one of those.
    2. I hate dishonest and semi dishonest theme shops, who bombard you with hugh numbers of their prices and then you find 'licenced GPL' 'hidden' at the last point of their faq. Studiopress for example. I think they don't want people to know, i think they (some of them) are only GPL because the pressure of the wordpress community not because the really wan't to or honestly beleave in the GPL. I remember it as it were yesterday, it now about i year ago i think. I was a bit confused about the GPL and thaught somehow the must provide a free download link when they are GPL ;). I of course now know better. Anyway the total laughable thing what happended back then was that i were accused by the StudioPress founder of confusing people by telling them that they can copy and download and modify their framework for free and that this is legal. He actually acused me of confusing people by telling them the truth! Pathetic.
    3. Guys who are to lazy to read the GPL and ask what they can and can't to with theme/plugin. This is of course party the fault if what i said under 2.). I ocasionally read the public section of the studiopress blog and forums and very often this happens. People ask thing like "can i use this on multiple sites" and the adwers are of course yes. But i don't have the feeding that there is a great effort to educate people about the GPL. That same guy might come back 2 days later and ask about if he
    Theme developers often (Studippress does so) try to scare you of unofficial downloads, and claim that they are have often encrypted code in it, this might was the case way back in the times but i would say if you search for free downloads the sites that have high google ranking don't usually encrypt code, its not very hard to find, i don't know if virus scanners detect all sorts of php 'viruses' but i really tried to find something with bad code in it and i failed, i don't say that is does not exist but i would say that it's not that risky.

    And now this terms of service of pagelines they take stuff with the GPL to a new level!

    I saw a Theme Shop (don't remember which one now) who told the customers right away that everything is GPL right besides the price! And of course no strange extra terms ... I beleave this is the only way to go. Honesty! Even if it means that a certain percentage of those guys reading GPL right away go to google search for a download link and get it for free and know that its 1000% legal to do so! I want to salute all shops who are doing it this honest way at this point. And i mean that percentage cant be high, because if people want it for free they in general don't care if its legal or illegal anyway so i see no need for this 'hiding' GPL in the last FAQ point or like Pagelines does nested in this block of crap!

    I beleave Business with the GPL should based on honesty and by observing it the self proclaimed "industry standard of wordpress themes" and industry leading Industry-leading security sell stone age outdated (still no html5 yet) of medium quality themes for high prices, and the founder is a lier, who is all about dishonesty, profit maximization, and not about free and open software!

    Funny fact: he tells people for example that they not should make their sites all about self-advertising and stuff. And what he does himself? He turned his own name into a Starbucks advertisement, as if he really needs that on top of this overpriced theme buissness. This guy goes so against my gut i would never ever pay for software from this Starbuck whore! And the GPL gives me the rights to choose not to, and that why i love the GPL. Freedom!

    I want to make clear that i am not advertising for download GPL software somewhere for free, in general, i am in fact for paying for it, but only of you believe full in it, and you fit with the company/practices/terms as a whole!

    This means for Pagelines like i said, who believes in nesting the GPL in crap thats nulled by the GPL later don't deserves to get paid, go google "Pagelines Framework Pro Verson free download" go virustotal.com. have fun with it! Its your right! They throw their rights away because they must, because the want to make big business with WordPress, because WordPress is the most used CMS in the world and NOT because they beleave in free and open software! They have proven that!

    I like the code, of Genesis taught, i think under the hood its a great framework. Well what i wanted to say is i think they are extremely good in marketing but the quality if the themes itself is not that good. I will now stop the rant about them.

    OMG what have i done here.

  27. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I am about to form my opinion about Pagelines and i just went to their terms of services

    That license refers to the commercial copy of the Pagelines Framework - not the version of Pagelines hosted on wordpress.org.

    Studiopress for example. I think they don't want people to know, i think they (some of them) are only GPL because the pressure of the wordpress community not because the really wan't to or honestly beleave in the GPL.

    Studiopress are strong supporters of both WordPress & GPL. In fact some of the people who volunteer here in their free time are Studiopress people.

    i would say if you search for free downloads the sites that have high google ranking don't usually encrypt code, its not very hard to find,

    That's dangerous rubbish! I would strongly recommend that you read this article asap. There are good reasons why we are forever telling people to only download themes from reputable resources.

    I'm not sure of quite what the purpose of your post is. It does contain some serious errors and quite appallingly bad advice. Either way, it does not belong in this topic nor on these support forums. This is what blogs are for.

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