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Template using only tables (easy solution here) (19 posts)

  1. ongakukaku
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    For anyone who's interested in using tables only, I did all tables on my WP, it was alot easier than I thought

    It's easy all you have to do is think about these 3 pages
    main (index), header, footer

    also if you want you can update these too page template, archive template,

    - in the header everything below body tag can be replaced with your top table header (match with your html code)
    - in footer everything above ?php wp_footer(); ? can be replaced with table footer - note I wasn't sure if it needed to be removed or not so i just left it. If its just linked to the css footer then you should be able to remove it too but i haven't tried it yet.
    - now that you have the header / footer copy each to the other templates, header goes on top of the template code and footer goes underneath the template code.
    - I also made <!--markers so i could know where to put it
    - re: sidebar, in the main(index) i positioned the (get sidebar) code in the place i wanted it and this would be included on all the other template pages so i made sure to remove the (get siebar) from the bottom of each page. that way the sidebar appears in all the pages, currently i don't have it in comments so i may leave it.
    - i also rearranged the order of items in sidebar template which isn't too difficult

    now, my WP blog is fully tablelized BUT, i do realize the power of CSS just haven't figured it out yet, but I do intend on reverting back to CSS once i do. Because my site layout is rather complexed i need to rely on tables for now. CSS is used mostly on simple layouts, although some would argue, CSS is a long way from being stable enough to be used by the general public (jr web designers) if anyone needs help you can contact me at warmac @ gmail.com

  2. ryanc
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    I'm actually looking for someone to do a similar project for me. Interested? If so, email me at ryan@jalopyjournal.com.

    thanks!

  3. Mark (podz)
    Support Maven
    Posted 9 years ago #

    "CSS is used mostly on simple layouts, although some would argue, CSS is a long way from being stable enough to be used by the general public"

    What ?
    That statement is wrong on so very many levels.
    Utter garbage in fact.

  4. ongakukaku
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    Well I'm willing to bet 50 million web users would say that CSS is utter garbage from a certain point of view of course. The only people who seem to disagree are the geekazoids who spend their entire life on the web building intricate CSS files, then claiming how easy and simple it was, to me that is utter garbage :)

    I'm not saying CSS is bad i'm just saying at the present it's a toy that geeks enjoy fooling around with. Me personally, I don't have the time to waste. Sure, I'll learn it eventually and become better but one must study it well to be really good at it and even then not all browsers will display it without some sort of hacking. If you have to hake it to death just to make it look right in all browsers then its a waste of time.

  5. Minna
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    From a maintenance or upkeep's (or obsessive-compulsive layout changer's) point of view CSS is absolutely wonderful. You can change the look of your site(s) easily with the change of one file, whereas with "traditional" approach you need to remember to make the changes to every single one of the dozens and dozens of files you may have (unless you have dynamic pages). Tables in structure and CSS in styling I can understand. :)

    "Geekazoids"... oh, I like that

  6. Firas
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    The only people who seem to disagree are the geekazoids who spend their entire life on the web building intricate CSS files...

    Also known as professionals. Web design pros and those approaching their skill know CSS inside out. The random novice doesn't. You want to rut your skills in mid-90s techniques? Go for it.

  7. Minna
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    Is keeping skills up to date important or necessary for a non-professional who just keeps a homepage for fun? Of course, when the old skills don't make working pages anymore, then it may be time for some freshening up. Then again, if left till the "last minute" it'll be quite an ordeal to catch up.

    There are people who want to keep a homepage for the content and don't really care about the technical stuff, and there are people who keep a homepage (or several) just to have an excuse to practise web design, and of course there are people who do both. I admit I'm 70% in the 2nd group.

  8. F1_error
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    CSS is not a toy.
    HTML is going to be slowly phased out in favor of new markups. You wouldn't use the orginal 0.1 HTML spec from 1994 to build a new page these days would you? And I hate to burst your bubble but the table page layout is a hack designers came up with to place items in a page where they wanted them. The orginal purpose of the table tag was to layout data, not pages.
    I'd say that before you start calling CSS a toy or utter garbage, you'd better spend some time getting to know your history and where markup specs are going.
    After all, why do you think it's called CSS2 and XHTML1.1?

  9. ongakukaku
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    CSS the toy for professional geekzaoids who want to make $$ and impress others with their analytical nonsense :)
    CSS may be a thing of the future but it's a long way off to being something just anyone can use, five years from now it still won't be the bomb. Tables is more practical and easier to work with then CSS.
    I rate what the average person can do with it in a short time not the professional who spent their entire life plugged into the web trends. I think even when CSS does become the standard it won't make it any less complicated to learn. Seeing the way some designers style their CSS so complicated it makes my head spin.
    I do support the cSS movement of course when i do get more into it I won't be filling up the entire CSS page with rubbish analytical coding. I've already investe alot of time in studying CSS and i can tell you it ain't all that, it's got some nice features but it's closer to rubbish then tables, he he. but they are both good.
    The geeks will always defend the web since it's their home in virtual land. Not me i'm a user / designer and i can see the uselessness of alot of practices out there. Geeks just want to make $$$ and impress people with their coding it never impressed me.

  10. katesgasis
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    People doesn't use CSS only for the sake of impressing others of their CSS skills. CSS is here for a purpose. Unless you only wanted to have a pretty website then you can have your tables. But if you wanted to change your layout pretty often then you're out of luck if you use tables.

    Anyway, nobody is forcing anybody to use CSS everywhere. It's just a matter of choice.

  11. Minna
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    but it's closer to rubbish then tables (...) but they are both good.

    CSS does not equal tables. CSS is not an alternative to tables. CSS does not equal block positioning. CSS equals getting colour, font, size, etc. styling away from cluttering up the html code.

    It's styling (as the name suggest). You just happen to be able to do positioning.

    How do you style your pages? with <font>?

  12. YellowSwordfish
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    Sorry - got to weigh in and fuel the flames! I'm new to CSS and it is an absolute gem. The week I spent learning it was a remarkable discovery. But the main point I wanted to make that has NOT been mentioned is that CSS is important for scaling. It is the only way you are going to get content delivered to a PC, a mobile, a PDA and any other display device in the future - using the same markup and XHTML content. Pre-CSS markup wont do this without nasty hacking.
    It is so nice to see short, readable HTML documents that can be easily read and understood without having to wade through reams of table, font, border and colour tags.

  13. Root
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    If anyone is remotely interested in scaling and rollout then among the less frequently stated benefits of CSS is modularisation. It is easily split up so that core elements can be reused on multi page or multi domain sites. With a dash of php it becomes a really red hot way of doing things. I am not going to get into what other people should or should not do. But for those with the time or ability to develop the skill set the benefits are awesome. Some guys dont know what they are missing. :)

  14. Kiddeath91
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    If the value and point of CSS isn't clear, check out http://www.csszengarden.com/

    The same html document has been styled differently hundreds of times. Pretty impressive.

  15. Denis de Bernardy
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    As much as I love CSS when it comes to skinning an interface, it is garbage when it comes to creating a layout without tables.

  16. Jinsan
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    isn't this a case of the OP not understanding CSS and therefore condemning it as, dare I say, bollocks?

    It's easy to berate something you don't understand. CSS is not a geek thing, and about dollars, it's (for me at least) a way to understand and manage the styling of a site better. Kiddeath91 has provided a perfect example. 1 html file, and dozens of css files providing the same content but presenting differently. Separation of content and styling is surely a better way to manage thing?

    Tables are fine. To present data, as has been said time and time again. You can use tables if you want to create your site structure, but then that is a personal choice.

    I think the original post has only been created to start a tepid and pointless argument. Nothing that has been said has been productive or constructive. I still have no clue as to what he means with regards to CSS being used by geeks for analytical nonsense.

    This isn't the first post to randomly start a pointless discussion which bares ignorance, and it won't be the last. If there is to be an argument for tables, please make constructive with examples. In that regard denis has some very interesting arguments and are much more constructive, instead of some juvenile drivel about something being garbage because they don't understand it. Utter nonsense. You can only call it garbage I suppose if you know what you're talking about, which denis clearly does - though the views may differ :)

  17. brainwidth
    Member
    Posted 9 years ago #

    ongakukaku, if you're so proud of your table-based design, why not give us a link so we can check it out?

  18. alexandrasaint
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    All i can hear here is css is good tables are bad or vice versa.
    I am designing weblayouts for over 8 year now and i tried everything.And i have to say CSS alone isnt enough to keep all your customers happy.But neverless it make a huge differents when it come to fonts design.No more <fonts> tags all over the coding.But still you need tables also,if you dont wanna loose customers.Because 45% of all internet users are using old browsers.Its sad but true.So why say CSS is bad and only tables are good when you can have a hybrid system with the best of both.
    But thats just my opinion and worked for me very well and keeps customers coming back.And it works in any browser and looks the same.

  19. halfbloodprince
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    I'm not saying CSS is bad i'm just saying at the present it's a toy that geeks enjoy fooling around with.

    I'm not a geek, and I find working with CSS to be quite easy. Much easier than tables, in fact.

    isn't this a case of the OP not understanding CSS and therefore condemning it as, dare I say, bollocks?

    Yes, I think it is.

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