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[closed] STOP PACKAGING UPDATES WITH THE DEFAULT THEME (31 posts)

  1. fireundubh
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    I just lost an entirely unique theme updating WordPress. Please either stop packaging the default theme with new versions OR provide just the updated WordPress files in separate archives. The update process is extremely counterintuitive and has pissed me off for a long time.

  2. SimonJ
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    ...!

    The first step when you upgrade : make a backup.

    http://codex.wordpress.org/Upgrading_WordPress

    The first step when you make a theme : make a backup.

    The first step on a forum : do not shout with CAPS...

    Nobody have to take the blame for the fact that you're unable to read the instructions...

    S.

  3. fireundubh
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    The first step when you upgrade : make a backup.

    The first step when making upgrades available: make individual upgrades available. The open-source community has been doing that for at least a decade. Proper versioning precludes requiring users to re-download untouched files, such as the default theme.

    The first step on a forum : do not shout with CAPS...

    No, CAPS is "shouting." And that's precisely what I was doing.

    Nobody have to take the blame for the fact that you're unable to read the instructions...

    Whatever that means. I wasn't blaming anyone else for destroying my theme. I was blaming the developers for poorly designing the upgrade process which led to my theme's destruction. I normally remove the default theme from the archive prior to extraction. Your insult was completely unnecessary and unwarranted.

    That said, I managed to "recover" the theme that was overwritten by piecing together snippets of code from other unique themes I've created. But my criticism of the upgrade process still stands.

  4. Meyithi
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Wow - if you mess with the default theme and don't save it, you can't blame the devs, it's just like changing any other core WordPress file.

    I know - the next release of WordPress shouldn't update any files, just in-case somebody has made changes to them, wouldn't want them to lose any changes now would we?

  5. fireundubh
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Wow - if you mess with the default theme and don't save it, you can't blame the devs, it's just like changing any other core WordPress file.

    I didn't mess with the default theme. I deleted the default theme and place one of my own themes in a "/default" directory. I've ran into problems with past versions where WordPress resets the default theme and breaks the site. Placing your own theme in a "/default" directory ensures that WordPress always uses that theme.

    I know - the next release of WordPress shouldn't update any files, just in-case somebody has made changes to them, wouldn't want them to lose any changes now would we?

    Sarcasm is stupid. My criticism is valid. Your assertion is not.

  6. echoca
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Sticky: WORDPRESS 2.3.3 IS AVAILABLE!!!!

    The #2 post has this...

    also, if you want just the changed files, in a zip ..Ive made a zip available on my site --whooami

    and

    I was blaming the developers for poorly designing the upgrade process which led to my theme's destruction.

    I have not seen any upgrade process (eg: an upgreade only file version), just clear instructions on how to upgrade.

    But you can not argue with the upgrade instructions...

  7. fireundubh
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    But you can not argue with the upgrade instructions...

    Instructions are indicative of poor design.

    The fact is that the Kubrick theme is included in every package by default. There should be an installation package and separate upgrade packages. The Kubrick theme should only be included in the installation package for first-time users and initial configuration. The Kubrick theme should not be included in upgrade packages in which only a few files of many have actually been updated.

  8. SimonJ
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    fireundubh wrote : I didn't mess with the default theme. I deleted the default theme and place one of my own themes in a "/default" directory.

    LOL...

    S.

  9. fireundubh
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    LOL...

    Laugh all you want. I've designed plenty of unique themes (i.e., themes not based on other themes) and manage at least six different corporate and nonprofit websites that use WordPress as a CMS, not just as a blogging platform. I do things the way I do them for good reasons.

  10. ClaytonJames
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    I've ran into problems with past versions where WordPress resets the default theme and breaks the site. Placing your own theme in a "/default" directory ensures that WordPress always uses that theme...
    ...and manage at least six different corporate and nonprofit websites that use WordPress

    Even so, what sounds counterintuitive to me is spending a lot of time creating a customized theme and then placing it back in the default path without keeping a current backup of all your hard work. I'm not arguing your point, I just think it's pretty hard to justify "shouting" at anyone other than yourself. Especially if you knew from past experience that this would happen on the next upgrade as well.

  11. echoca
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    "I" think that maybe if you suggest to the "devs" to make an upgrade package available, you may find that more beneficial for you and us all. This forum is not the most friendly place IMO (esp: for new users (no implication to anyone) with old/dumb/used to death/well documented Q's (I don't blame all who help either)), and shouting posts like this just get us all going (warranted/needed), right?

    Maybe there is a reason that there is no upgrade package? I don't know but maybe it would help the process.

  12. fireundubh
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    I'm not arguing your point, I just think it's pretty hard to justify "shouting" at anyone other than yourself. Especially if you knew from past experience that this would happen on the next upgrade as well.

    Right. I'm pissed at myself for not remembering to remove the default theme from the upgrade package, and I'm pissed at the lack of better upgrade packages, especially at the frequency WordPress releases upgrades.

  13. fireundubh
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    and shouting posts like this just get us all going (warranted/needed), right?

    Yes, well, I was angry and needed to shout. You've all had kneejerk responses in your life, right? Sorry for shouting, but like I said, I stand by my criticism.

  14. whooami
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    ...especially at the frequency WordPress releases upgrades.

    Better to be hacked?

    I was going to stay out of this one, but I cant help but ask why you find downloading the ONE file that was actually the whole reason for the release THAT hard?

    Use wget? Coulda grabbed it.

    Use Fetch? Coulda grabbed it.

    In other words, they did sort of provide what you asked for. Its there, downlodable, one little file. IF you read the post that announced it.

    Trouble is that too many people come here and dont read -- the dev blog, the codex, or the forums.

    /me runs back to playing with her treo.

  15. fireundubh
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    I'm not understanding your question, whooami. Do you understand this thread? I don't think downloading a single upgrade file is difficult. I think downloading a single upgrade file that contains unchanged files, including the Kubrick theme, makes upgrading unnecessarily difficult.

    By the way, I'm not a new forum user.
    http://wordpress.org/support/profile/106036

  16. ClaytonJames
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    @whooami

    I got just the updated files from your site, by the way. Thanks for taking the time to Zip 'em up and make them available. Worked out just fine.

  17. whooami
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    i didnt say anything about you being new, did I?

    Whats not to understand, the single file I am referring to is called xmlrpc.php and its linked to right inside the post that announces the upgrade:

    http://wordpress.org/development/2008/02/wordpress-233/

    In other words, your complaining needlessly -- they
    provided what was essential, and it would not have affected your theme.

    You, whether you have been here 2 days, or 2 years, didnt read that post apparently.

  18. fireundubh
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Patches should be on this page.
    http://wordpress.org/download/

  19. whooami
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    well, you can use words like "should be" all day long -- the fact is that matt, et al, can do whatever they like, whenever they like, however they like.

    Your opinion is just that.

  20. SimonJ
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    fireundubh wrote : "I think downloading a single upgrade file that contains unchanged files, including the Kubrick theme, makes upgrading unnecessarily difficult".

    1- Backup your database
    2- Backup your wp-content
    3- Upload the new release or only the changed files (this is what whooami explain, by the way )
    4- Go to example.com/wordpress/wp-admin/upgrade.php

    What is so "unnecessarily difficult" in these instructions?

    Anyway... I give up. But I srongly encourage the wordpress team to keep the upgrade like this. This is the easyest open source blog/cms to install or upgrade.(did you ever tried to upgrade zencart for instance ?)

    I really fear all these so called "automatic upgrade" gizmos.

    Make a backup, replace files, put back your backup... It's almost too so simple to be true...

    S.

    P.S. The is a BIG NOTE on the upgrade page : NOTE The wp-content folder requires special handling, as do the plugins and themes folders. You must copy over the contents of these folders, not the entire folder. Copying the entire folder overwrites all your customizations and added content.

    P.P.S. Default means default...

  21. yogipress
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    O.o? .. my precious...?

  22. Sridhar Katakam
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    I agree w/ the original poster. The changed files list and changed files download link must be made available at http://wordpress.org/download/.

    Of course, as I am a mere user of WordPress, I don't have the influence to control anyone into doing this, so treat this as my wish.

  23. thelazygeisha
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    I just lost an entirely unique theme updating WordPress. Please either stop packaging the default theme with new versions OR provide just the updated WordPress files in separate archives. The update process is extremely counterintuitive and has pissed me off for a long time.

    Why is it counterintuitive? Each new release of WP must be treated as a complete package for the person who may be new to WP and wants to install the software, maybe for the very first time. The download page clearly states what's included in the distribution.

    It seems awful silly to blame WP because you didn't make a backup of your wp-content folder, or even worse, that you don't have a backup of your work someplace offline!

    Maybe you were too busy thinking about all those themes you've designed and all those corporate and non-profit sites you say you're involved with to remember to make backups?

    Why do you have to wag your digital Johnson around and pound your chest and call everyone else stupid everytime someone disagrees with you or points out your obvious mistake?

    It really doesn't help anyone solve anything now does it...

  24. Kafkaesqui

    Posted 6 years ago #

    Note from on high: The original poster put forward his/her opinion on the issue at hand. If you feel a need to respond to that and provide your own, you're free to do so. But let's tone things down and avoid personal attacks (direct or otherwise), or I'll feel compelled to tie this thread up.

  25. IcelandDream
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    ok, I'll keep it calm.
    many things could be different but they aren't so I deal with those.
    One, I personally wouldn't put a custom theme in the same place that anything else could potentially overwrite it.
    And I'd have another copy of those files *somewhere* just in case I goofed up.

  26. StrangeAttractor
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    While it's definitely important to backup and be careful when upgrading, I can't help but sympathize with the idea that the (frequent!) upgrade process is made even more tedious by having to download a whole installation file.

    Definitely would be nicer if there was a specific "upgrade" package with the new files only, and perhaps some indication of which files are essential.

    That said, I would be very wary about automating the process, given how often plugins and mods are broken by even minor upgrades.

  27. IcelandDream
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Definitely would be nicer if there was a specific "upgrade" package with the new files only, and perhaps some indication of which files are essential.

    yes but we're getting off track. Even with an upgrade package you would have the same problem in this case if for example the changed files included the default theme. Easy fix there would be to name your hard work theme something other than default.
    With a decent ftp,scp,etc client you can upload only files that are new. Push button easy.

  28. nervejam
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Standard IT helpdesk scenario:

    user: I have spent several hours working on (blah, blah), and it's corrupted/disappeared. Help me.

    operator: revert to your backup copy..

    user: Err..

    operator: NEXT!

  29. ceo
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Even with an upgrade package you would have the same problem in this case if for example the changed files included the default theme.

    Yes, and this would be where reading is important. There is always a changelog that is linked in every update announcement that lists exactly what is changed in what files. If one is concerned with overwriting old files - that should be what s/he should reference.

    Before WP had themes and all that, we were restricted to hacks and I used to keep a txt file on my site that listed every single file I'd altered because I'd so often been lazy and didn't read what files had been changed and done exactly what the original poster did. It happens, but there are precautions one can take.

    Going back to the original post, I find it rather juvenile to come to a public forum and yell at everyone for something that, as I noted above, could have been prevented if some care with reading the announcement had been taken. The /download page always lists the latest stable, it has never been a record of what updates, etc. - that's why there's the dev blog. Which, as has been stated by other replies, did link to the single file that needed to be changed, as well as a changelog of all the other minor changes.

    If you're going to have a theme in a folder "default" - it should be you, I think, that should take care to keep a backup. It's sloppy to store a theme in such a folder anyway, knowing how WP is packaged. And I've made several themes from scratch and never had a problem having them recognized - perhaps this is an issue you should research into to help avoid possible theme loss again.

  30. Jeremy Clark
    Moderator
    Posted 6 years ago #

    The support forum isn't really the best way to get you point across to the devs especially when done in a demanding way. Anyway the proper channel to contact the devs would either be the kvetch or use the ideas forum. The support forums are for just that support.

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