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[resolved] [closed] Richer SVN instructions? (16 posts)

  1. SocialBlogsite
    Member
    Posted 2 years ago #

    Since the moment the documentation mentions SVN for plugin submission, there's nowhere a single line explaining managing subversioned files in your OS (Finder-Explorer) will mess up everything, and you encounter forced to use command-line as the only reference offered in those pages, which won't work either after your changes in the desktop. I made a petition (codex talk) to unlock that page to allow richer information.

    Please don't close this topic like the other.

    I'd like to read other's opinion, except fonglh.

    I could use a poll here.

  2. Normally I attempt to refrain from circular discussions, but I am curious and want to ask you some questions.

    Honestly, what do you hope to accomplish by your behavior and these posts? Do you just want opinions, want to convince people, form a glee club, or what?

    Do you really find it productive to search for old topics and insert your opinion into them? Don't you think that's a bit pointless?

    You don't like the SVN documentation for plugin submissions. You have made that point abundantly clear.

    You would like that page to be editable by you, I got that.

    You would like the documentation updated to suit your tastes and address a problem that you have with it, despite the fact that that documentation starts with this as a second sentence.

    For more comprehensive documentation, see The SVN Book.

    The SVN Book located at http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/index.html with another link leading you to http://svnbook.red-bean.com/ and I am 100% sure you get this, you understand.

    What you fail to understand is that the page you are incensed about is NOT about the pitfalls of using SVN and issues residing in the management of those files in your OS.

    It's a step-by-step document describing how to check out a blank repository, how to exit files in that repository, and how to tag a release.

    Yes, it's a bit concise but it's SVN. What do you expect? It's for developers and like the sign on the amusement ride says "You need to be this tall to get on".

    Have you made any attempt to improve that documentation via the Codex? You can create your own Codex page and offer that as a substitution. If it's good then I'm sure it will be considered.

    If it's not substantially better or even worse, then it won't.

    http://codex.wordpress.org/Codex:Contributing
    http://codex.wordpress.org/Codex:Guidelines
    http://codex.wordpress.org/Codex:Styles

    This is more than I intended to write, and I hope you understand I am not attempting to wind you up. But you can be more constructive than this.

  3. SocialBlogsite
    Member
    Posted 2 years ago #

    Honestly, what do you hope to accomplish by your behavior and these posts? Do you just want opinions, want to convince people, form a glee club, or what?

    My behavior is a defense. If I'm not attacked and I'm given help as i give others, I play nice. Passing over the few who stop me in the door with own fears (having to re-code, loosing self-believed "leadership" or "representation". i write for many, and a few blocking my topics annoys me.

    Do you really find it productive to search for old topics and insert your opinion into them?

    Yes. It helps me getting support, when my topic is closed without answers other than one guy.

    You would like that page to be editable by you, I got that.

    I don't care if it's not me. It's so neglected that ANY further help would be fine. It doesn't even have to be in that page, but since that's the page people lands on, some calls-out / links should be put there to let people it's not the end of the world.

    You would like the documentation updated to suit your tastes and address a problem that you have with it…

    Saying I want it to suit "my" taste is like keeping to suit "yours" (the ones who do understand it).

    …despite the fact that that documentation starts with this as a second sentence.

    You are comparing "learning to drive" with "reading the whole book which cames with a car". Think about it. If your parents had told you "read this" instead of "push this pedal" you'd have never learned to drive.

    with another link leading you to http://svnbook.red-bean.com/ and I am 100% sure you get this, you understand.

    I'd re-design their whole page to make it "read-able" without head-aches, but why not doing it where is ready-er and friendly-er? (WordPress). Someone designed its interface, API, Look, Usability… and they weren't programmers. I don't need programmers to defend their code when the human aspect is decided somewhere else. I'd like people's input. (people as in "gross population, wp users in this case. Not that programmers are not people)

    What you fail to understand is that the page you are incensed about is NOT about the pitfalls of using SVN and issues residing in the management of those files in your OS.

    Where would you put the short-version of "how to drive"? In the car's glovebox or
    in the manufacturer plant?
    If you convince me that the Plugin API wasn't designed to reach people who can't understand that "correct" way to do it without home lingo (i.e. that the API was ment for programmers only) and the visioners who push WP to the masses (not the programmers who burn their axes to make it happen) don't care about non-programmers being able to still develop their own plugins, then I'll quit asking for this (and I'll start selling hot-dogs instead of doing wp-sites)

    What do you expect? It's for developers and like the sign on the amusement…".

    Again. Plugin API codex is editable, full of good help, open to let "others" to reject it or complain if didn't like it, or welcome if they did. So are you saying "WordPress visioners expect everyone make plugins but just programmers submit it?" Duh. Bottle-neck! It's the SAME process. One part is the beginning and the other is the end, but it's the same thing.

    …ride says "You need to be this tall to get on

    Say that at a conference to the audience, and prepare a speech to apologize with the millions who though the API was for what I mention over and over. There it went your "brotherhood of the holy code". Wasn't I right?

    I will work on a new combined insturctions page once I know more precisely what people opine, but it seems it will take me awhile. Having replied your questions, please answer my rhetorical questions to my email, so we leave this for others to opine (if the topic is not hurt already) and I don't have to create another.

    Thanks.

  4. Charles Frees-Melvin
    Member
    Posted 2 years ago #

    I fount the following very useful when I was learning svn in Terminal to create a L10n version of WordPress.

    http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/about/svn/

    http://mindsharestrategy.com/2011/how-to-publish-a-wordpress-plugin-subversion/

    http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Subversion

  5. SocialBlogsite
    Member
    Posted 2 years ago #

    The first one is the scary one.
    Here it goes another analogy for that one:

    For you to drive a Buldozer, you can "drive it like a shift-stick car and learn the levers for the shovel" or "use the right foot for accelerating, the middle one for the brake, the clutch is at the left and works like this: …"

    Same thing. A head-ache the second option, although it's the manufacturer's.

    Second link, doesn't mention anywhere the relation between the files you are "managing" and the icons you "see" (and can modify!) in the desktop (Finder for mac), nor the issues, nor a solution to STILL do it the Win-Finder way.

    The third link is the one I patched myself. I almost forgot, which is proof it's unreachable. I.e. it's not handy by arriving from search engines nor by browsing from the Plugin API page (or the link is buried somewhere)

    I could write my recent tip right there, but it won't be as visible as the other page.

  6. Samuel Wood (Otto)
    Tech Ninja
    Posted 2 years ago #

    Second link, doesn't mention anywhere the relation between the files you are "managing" and the icons you "see" (and can modify!) in the desktop (Finder for mac), nor the issues, nor a solution to STILL do it the Win-Finder way.

    I really, really wish I knew just what the hell you were talking about.

    Files are files. You can manage them in any way you like. Whether that be via Explorer, or the Finder, or the command-line. SVN doesn't care about that, because SVN has nothing to do with it.

    Furthermore, I have just discovered the changes you made to the codex. They are fundamentally incorrect and unnecessary, so I reverted that page.

    If I understood your problem, then I could edit the page as needed. However, you're not making a lot of sense.

  7. SocialBlogsite
    Member
    Posted 2 years ago #

    Strikes?
    That page is meant to be edited. That note has helped people, and if someone doesn't like it because it adds more work to its pile, nowhere says that the removal will strike a thing. I have the right to contribute, and you the right to care a dime about non-programmers the Plugin API is designed for and ignore us.

    If I understand correctly, so far you have been closing my post because some guy buried my post in grammar accusations, and now you strike me for something the whole community has revised and just you hate it retro-actively.

    Even though, I'd like to explain you whatever you didn't understand, but with ALL the posts I made about it, if you don't understand it yet, you either don't want to, or don't care because it doesn't affect you. If you want to understand what I meant, read the topic you closed. You must have read it in order to close it.

    Yes, close this one too. It became another two-person disagreement. Better instructions will be posted sooner or later, and I'll be there to comment in every post requesting it or asking for help on the issues you know will keep happening.

  8. Samuel Wood (Otto)
    Tech Ninja
    Posted 2 years ago #

    No sir, I closed your other thread because it became nothing but a back and forth rant and personal attacks against the other guy. Both of you did it. You know it.

    You need to relax more. Perhaps yoga?

    My point was that I really, truly, don't understand your complaints here. Okay, the instructions don't work for you. Great. Got that.

    But in what way are they wrong? You seem to be confusing "files" and "icons" and "finder" and throwing these around randomly in ways that I don't understand and which, after several reads, make little sense.

    What part of the instructions is wrong? What part needs to be clarified? More to the point: What mistake did you make, exactly, and what instructions would have prevented you from making that mistake? That's what I need to know to make real improvement.

    Your contributions on the codex were factually wrong and also written in the wrong style. The codex is a documentation page, not a place to write about your issues in the first person.

    If you convince me that the Plugin API wasn't designed to reach people who can't understand that "correct" way to do it without home lingo (i.e. that the API was ment for programmers only) and the visioners who push WP to the masses (not the programmers who burn their axes to make it happen) don't care about non-programmers being able to still develop their own plugins, then I'll quit asking for this (and I'll start selling hot-dogs instead of doing wp-sites)

    Wait, what?

    If you write a plugin, then sir, you are a programmer. And yes, the codex and associated documentation is written for programmers.

    Plugins are programs. You do have to be a programmer to write them. You have to learn how to program. This is axiomatic.

    The codex isn't going to teach you how to program. That's something everybody learns for themselves. We don't really need to be documenting basic PHP and code practices. We don't need to be overly documenting how files work, or how to use SVN.

    Yes, you do have to learn programming to write a plugin.

  9. SocialBlogsite
    Member
    Posted 2 years ago #

    Well, now it does seem you read something. Thanks.

    I'll do my best to explain it with the latest ways to say it (probably where others quit)
    I'll try to stop using parentheses, though and clarify later so you don't get lost.

    But in what way are they wrong?

    They are not wrong. The page is the landing page from Google and before discouraging people to commit their plugin some note/link/call-out needs to be placed.
    Parentheses:
    1) Plugin API was designed, independently of what you thought you are programming it for, for more people to be able to develop Plugins -point 2 applies here too- without being a Programmer like you. It works, and people like me, probably the biggest group, are doing it without being a programmer.

    2) Developing a plugin and committing it is part of the same thing.

    3) You (programmers) are wrong expecting "we have to be this tall to use svn".
    What's that called? - Making others win their wings to access what you got with sweat- envy? bragging?. I don't know. I just know it's big enough to make so difficult to see the bottleneck the submission is, when the 'authorized' way to use SVN is that.

    You seem to be confusing "files" and "icons" and "finder" and throwing these around randomly in ways that I don't understand and which, after several reads, make little sense.

    You seem to have never used a Mac or a PC with windows.
    Don't you really know what Finder is?
    Finder.App?
    Apple OS's file manager?
    -I was reluctant to call them "file managers" because people know them by "Finder" or "Window's Desktop or Explorer".-

    Most people out here use Graphical file managers SVN GUIs run on.
    Those GFM allow you to work with the files you have under SVN anyway, causing most of issues for us -my big group, not you.
    That's what the note you removed from the codex -far from the page people lands on- said.

    For us, GFM is a great way to work. You can probably glide through code and files in a command-line terminal, not us.
    Not having that explained in the same page or very close to it, is to deny us a chance to do it quicker.

    A product this quality, this open, this popular, designed to be easy-to-use, WordPress and Plugins API, with instructions that nerdy… Those instructions could easily be on SVN book website and WordPress having its own for-the-people page, at the same level than the rest of the project.

    Such a Plugin API for-everyone with such SVN instructions sounds like "ok, we are forced to allow you all to play with the dough, but only italian-pizza-masters like us can bake it. Disgusting.

    If you write a plugin, then sir, you are a programmer. And yes, the codex and associated documentation is written for programmers.

    I'm a developer. I write plugins and small projects that take me weeks. I'm not a programmer, and I YET have ignored your instructions. I can work with my files the way I use to, and my files commit fine.
    Are you wrong in the above quote or I don't exist?

    It's time for you to separate both terms 'programmer' and 'developer'.

    You might have programmed the API for programmers like you, but whoever came up with the "WordPress" concept (the whole thing, not just programming) had the idea of the API so people like me can grasp it. I wouldn't be a developer beyond html and css without the WP API. Some day I might be a programmer, but there's a big difference between developer and programmer.

    Also, it's time to stop saying "what this is", instead of reflecting up about "what it should be".
    I got your point, and what you though those instructions were made for.
    Today it's wrong. It's not at WP level.

    And that's the problem here. It used to happen to me when I had others deciding my projects. I used to get blinded on "what the project is" and not in "what the project is meant to be", because looking at it from the director's perspective my hard work seemed "not there yet". And it's the director's vision what is making my work that public and famous, not my work directly.
    We are so proud of 'what we did', that we can't see 'what it should be'.

    We don't really need to be documenting basic PHP and code practices. We don't need to be overly documenting how files work, or how to use SVN.

    Really? Don't you want to ask whoever decided an APi would be a great idea? Are you sure you are talking on behalf of most people?
    You're right. F_ _k them!. Let's get rid of the API and let programmers use PHP. They certainly can. See anything wrong there?

    Who is "we"?
    WordPress is a project for me. You are the developer. Regardless of it being free or not, I'm the user. Any project is made for the biggest group, so far me the target user, and yet I haven't gotten further than you on this topic. You, a programmer the size not many exist… I haven't had the opinion of real users. Your opinion as part of the small group of admins is compromised by interests, and your group is smaller than mine. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a need for an API, people would be learning farming instead of web development… -web dev is growing in size and skills-set, stats which makes WP to grow-

    … so when you say "we"… you should remember there are a lot of info in the codex you shouldn't allowing in there based in the same single-owner-excuse, but it's fine because this project is ours and it was us who published that content. It couldn't be too wrong if we pur it ourselves there. I'm sure there are hundreds or more prople checking those changes, and it wonders me it only affects you.

    I think you are totally wrong or have personal interest to keep that page the way it is, so in order for me to gather others opinion to prove you or myself wrong, what do you think is the best approach for me to get to them in this forum without a-few-programmers blocking me at the door?

    I'm sure you want the best for the project and ensure it's available for more and a wider range of skilled people -regardless of the etymology of programmer and developer- even if that awakens you of where WP goes seen from the outside.

  10. SocialBlogsite
    Member
    Posted 2 years ago #

    I forgot this:

    Files are files. You can manage them in any way you like. Whether that be via Explorer, or the Finder, or the command-line. SVN doesn't care about that, because SVN has nothing to do with it.

    You can't say that to anyone in the process of learning to commit plugins.
    They'll definitely use version 1.0 to make version 1.1 duplicating the folder in Finder/windows - if they passed the head-ache of your instructions- and will enter in errors with SVN that will cost them days to figure out.

    With my above paragraph you can help to prevent 80% or errors when using SVN, and with yours you'll ensure 80% more errors.
    wow.

  11. Nikki Blight
    Member
    Posted 2 years ago #

    I really have to ask this, as I've read thorough this topic three times now and still haven't figured it out.

    What use does a non-programmer have for the WordPress API or the SVN repository? You go on about how the lack of SVN documentation has a detrimental effect on the non-programmer end-user, but the API and SVN repo are intended, specifically, for developers (by which I mean developers of plugins and themes, not exclusively WP core developers)... not the average end-user.

    As such, a certain level of understanding is necessarily and correctly assumed. If you're a developer, you're generally expected to know the basics of development.

    The WordPress SVN repository does not function any differently than any other SVN repository, so what is the need of rewriting documentation that already exists, for an audience who should already know how to find and understand said documentation?

  12. 3) You (programmers) are wrong expecting "we have to be this tall to use svn".
    What's that called? - Making others win their wings to access what you got with sweat- envy? bragging?. I don't know. I just know it's big enough to make so difficult to see the bottleneck the submission is, when the 'authorized' way to use SVN is that.

    I think there's a language gap at work here. Saying you need to be this tall is like saying 'You need to walk before you can run.' It's an idiom in the US, and in this case is meant to mean "You do have to learn how to perform certain actions before you can use SVN."

    WordPress doesn't train you or provide lessons in HOW to use SVN any more than it does in how to use CSS, PHP, SQL, HTML, JS, or Ajax. Simply put, that's outside the scope. If you want to learn those things, you can, but the resources are not WordPress's to make or control becuase ... well there are just too many to consider doing.

    If you want to code for WordPress, you actually don't have to use SVN. You only have to use SVN if you want to submit patches, or have a plugin hosted on the WP repository. Which are not requirements for using WordPress.

    So. Yes. You have to master SVN if you want to host your plugins on the WP repository, and yes, WordPress gives limited directions to how this works, specific to how it's suggested to be used on WP. Yes, it assumes if you want to do this, you will learn SVN. And yes, learning SVN assumes you're going to put in the sweat equity (i.e. time) to learn it.

    a certain level of understanding is necessarily and correctly assumed. If you're a developer, you're generally expected to know the basics of development.

    That sums it up. And that's what was meant by 'You must be this tall to use SVN.'

  13. SocialBlogsite
    Member
    Posted 2 years ago #

    I've got the idiom. But you're still "giving the manufacturer's manual to the owner and leaving the how-to-drive short explanation in the factory".
    That's another idiom I made up for this, which means "you could helping so many people with little advice and you choose not to".

    The "you must be this tall…" doesn't apply anyway.
    This is why: In real life the reasons are liability. Other than being hurt, little kids COULD ride anything.
    In this case, it's just a "what you suppose". Your "point of view" makes difficult to believe it's possible. Things directors of projects can see and programmers can't.

    I see it rather like "you have to be a grown up to play with the TV remote control"
    IT DOESN'T BREAK. Nothing will happen. Whoever says that is pure selfish, lazy, awful parent. And over and over again: "I don't. I don't use your SVN command-line and I still submit plugins" Isn't that telling you right there you are wrong?

    I actually believed others could still think programmers are like you, because they are not up-to-date with what a framework and API allows code-divers, code-copy-paste, light programmers to do. But I never imagined people in the guts of WordPress would still think like that.

    You are choosing clog-up the plugin process with your "this is not supposed" song.
    Yes, WP made possible people to program themes and plugins without being programmers. Now what?
    Do we have to apologize for being the mayor group because you didn't expect it?
    (I'm sure your director did)

    When a project grows it can either reach the public you aimed to, or surprise you with other groups. In EITHER WAY, you just embrace and make their life easier.

    The biggest group here are not geniuses like you, and yet you decide to force etiquette?

    or have a plugin hosted on the WP repository. Which are not requirements for using WordPress

    Still nonsense that you have an API for anyone (not a programmer degree needed) to create plugins and choose to keep the SVN page that nerdy, clogging the whole process.
    I'd like to see you talking like that in front of a crowd in the 2012 meetup "We made it easier for anyone making plugins. We have 12yo kids making plugins for WP, but it's a mistake. You kid go to finish college before trying to commit it, because using SVN is not for Vista users.

    Well, WRONG. I don't remember a single word of that SVN page and I still can commit them fine. Isn't something you should be publishing in the home page?
    Right, you don't need to because you see it easy, and you want others to sweat it as you did. The only three people who wrote here so far ended up showing through their words that "want others winning their wings".

    "Using wordpress" is out of this subject. OF COURSE the biggest user group is the final blogger. But between actual programmers (the ones who don't need a graphical OS, the one who can code like the the rest chat, the one who can "digest" your instructions) and just developers (who can create WP themes and Plugins like me, who can create working stuff without being programmers), the biggest group are us, not you few who use your power to decide by the ones I can't get an answer from.

    I seriously think most people would agree with me if I could pass the door, and since I still believe you (should?) want the best for WP acceptation, again:

    How do you recommend me to post a topic to prevent your opinions and get others? (not related to the project, not the few geniuses that like others be that tall to ride WP API) Where do you suggest it goes?
    Given my stats are wrong and the API was not meant nor ended up getting non-programmers to develope plugins (and they still will need to publish them) where do you think that info should go?
    Good, are you going to think about it? (you deleted the note, so you must be the one who cares) well, here it goes:
    It's for the millions of people who wondered what WP is and said "hey, it's easy" and modified an existing plugin to make it cooler, more functional.
    Now they want to upload it, but… what a pain. They are used to Vista, Finder, drag-drop… and now command-line instructions. They go to SVN book and there's the WHOLE "how to operate a bulldozer" and they already know how to drive! They just need to know the levers for the shovel. A 10yo kid can do it when you show him. A 30yo man can't if you toss him the "manufacturer manual".
    … so… where would you put it? You make open source bulldozers.
    In the annual convention of manufacturers of bulldozers your boss is telling everyone you made these ready to operate like a car.
    Soon some part/child of it will go public and stock holders will attend that convention, and you're going to tell them "No, we don't want anyone to submit plugins. Just people this tall. Those hundreds of thousands (millions by then) of 12yo kids are a mistake.

    You can do it now, or later. You will do it. I'll be there :)

  14. Nikki Blight
    Member
    Posted 2 years ago #

    I see it rather like "you have to be a grown up to play with the TV remote control"
    IT DOESN'T BREAK. Nothing will happen. Whoever says that is pure selfish, lazy, awful parent.

    Except that it DOES break. A poorly coded plugin can cause a conflict that can bring down an entire site if the person who wrote it lacks experience and does something stupid. Much like a kid playing with a remote. When a poorly coded plugin is out in the wild, you have the potential for a lot of people with NO technical skills getting themselves into a situation they don't know how to fix on their own... with is rather contrary to the whole point of WordPress.

    Yes, WP made possible people to program themes and plugins without being programmers. Now what?
    Do we have to apologize for being the mayor group because you didn't expect it?
    (I'm sure your director did)

    I'm really not sure what you mean by this. If you're programming themes and plugins, you *are* a programmer. Perhaps not an expert programmer, but you should understand enough about what you're doing to understand the SVN documentation. If you can't, you have no business making anything you write available to the general public, because your code is much more likely to cause problems for people who install it.

    The biggest group here are not geniuses like you, and yet you decide to force etiquette?

    It's not "ettiquette" that's being forced. It's a level of quality control. And I would suspect that the *biggest* group is actually the group that doesn't care about the API or the SVN repo... i.e. the non-technical users who use WP to blog, run a business site, and so on. These are the plug-and-play users who only care whether or not the plugin they install doesn't kill their site. Not "light programmers" attempting to commit to the SVN repo. Non technical users expect a level of quality control.

    Still nonsense that you have an API for anyone (not a programmer degree needed) to create plugins and choose to keep the SVN page that nerdy, clogging the whole process.

    Ask a non-programmer what they think of the API. I suspect that you'd get a confused look after they saw it, since the API is written from a technical perspective, not a user perspective.

    I'd like to see you talking like that in front of a crowd in the 2012 meetup "We made it easier for anyone making plugins. We have 12yo kids making plugins for WP, but it's a mistake.

    Again... what does making plugins have to do with the repository? You can MAKE all the plugins you want to. There's no requirement that they must be commited to the repository. I myself have several early plugins I wrote when I was first learning WordPress that I would never commit to SVN because they have no business being there. They work fine for the sites they were written for, but they'd be a nightmare for the general public. Simply put, not every plugin should be in the repository... and frankly, if someone can't figure out SVN, then their code probably isn't ready for general release.

    Right, you don't need to because you see it easy, and you want others to sweat it as you did. The only three people who wrote here so far ended up showing through their words that "want others winning their wings".

    To be honest, I never found the SVN instructions lacking, so there was no "sweat" or "winning my wings" on my part. And incidentally, I'd never used SVN prior to that.

    But between actual programmers (the ones who don't need a graphical OS, the one who can code like the the rest chat, the one who can "digest" your instructions) and just developers (who can create WP themes and Plugins like me, who can create working stuff without being programmers), the biggest group are us, not you few who use your power to decide by the ones I can't get an answer from.

    By your definition, I'm no programmer. Yes, I can write code for themes and plugin, but I don't do it sans-GUI (in fact, my command line skills are severely lacking... something I really need to work on correcting). I rely on the API rather than instinctively knowing what functions to use, and I certainly can't "code like the rest chat". To be honest, I doubt there are any "programmers" working in wordpress, according to your standards. You seem to reguard them as some kind of nerd gods attempting to hold everyone else back. That's not the case.

    Given my stats are wrong and the API was not meant nor ended up getting non-programmers to develope plugins (and they still will need to publish them) where do you think that info should go?

    Again... WHY would a non-programmer/non-developer (since they are the same thing, really) need to publish a plugin? For that matter, why should every plugin written be published? My early plugins were downright embarassing... I wouldn't want them in the SVN repo.

    Now they want to upload it, but… what a pain. They are used to Vista, Finder, drag-drop… and now command-line instructions. They go to SVN book and there's the WHOLE "how to operate a bulldozer" and they already know how to drive! They just need to know the levers for the shovel. A 10yo kid can do it when you show him. A 30yo man can't if you toss him the "manufacturer manual".

    So you're saying that no one should ever have to make an effort to learn something new? Like a skill that could help them significantly later? I didn't know SVN at all before I started working with wordpress. I've now introduced it at my full-time job and use it multiple times a day for over 20 projects.

    In the annual convention of manufacturers of bulldozers your boss is telling everyone you made these ready to operate like a car.
    Soon some part/child of it will go public and stock holders will attend that convention, and you're going to tell them "No, we don't want anyone to submit plugins. Just people this tall. Those hundreds of thousands (millions by then) of 12yo kids are a mistake.

    Your logic here is flawed... you seem to regard WordPress as a for-profit business with bosses and stockholders and some vast corporate entity controlling it. That's not what WordPress is. WordPress.org is non-profit. The people responding to you (including the mods) are all unpaid volunteers with varying levels of technical skills. The code is free, and in all likelihood always will be. There is no "boss"... WordPress is open-source and anyone can do anything they like with it.

  15. SocialBlogsite
    Member
    Posted 2 years ago #

    I noticed you guys expect people to be able to use those command line instructions (read them I can do, understand is not hard, but remember and use them is a completely different mind process), and mocking them at the top with that "if this is greek for you…" text.

    Why if you quit that mocking attitude and just add a link to another page like "if you are NOT a experienced programmer here's an explanation from your point of view"

    You can use proper english, of course, and even keep the mocking up sentence at the top, which I recommend you remove, since that's the page people lands on from Search Engines, you liked it or not (You don't choose where people lands or what kind of great minds not-so-skilled in ancient ways of coding is trying to commit good plugins. You just listen SEO )

    Track how many people enters in that link (you can put it at the end if you feel putting it at the top makes a difference. A good SEO would make two pages randomly served and test them). Of course leave the "IF" statement at the top, 1) to prevent people leaving the page discouraged 2)To smooth out your mocking up intro.

    Do you think the experienced programmers you think is reaching that page will get confused if they read that help? You can even use another insulting sentence like "if you are not this tall… here's a piece of help for sunday drivers", so you make sures the ones who already won their wins wont enter.

  16. Okay. We've moved into the offensive now.

    I'm closing this post. If any mod has a problem with it, let's talk on the list.

    SocialBlogsite wants better SVN instructions. It's probably not going to happen, and this post isn't helping any. To use the driving metaphor, you're asking the car dealer to teach you how to drive.

    For now, no, but if someone writes up an intro level 'How to use SVN and WordPress', please consider bringing it to the Codex where it will be welcome.

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