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People should search more (47 posts)

  1. Amulet
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    Just to speak for myself...I almost always search first. I try to make it a habit. I even look at FAQ's on websites before emailing people! :D But sometimes a search doesn't bring up a post that solves my problem, or only solves part of it. Admittedly, I don't usually look beyond the first page of results, because I usually don't find better answers than the first page. I just posted a question about adding a link attribute in quicktags.js. I did find results, but even the person who posted some code said it didn't work.

    As for the times I don't search first, it's usually because I forget, and I apologize for that.

  2. TechGnome
    Moderator
    Posted 8 years ago #

    The disorganization here is incredible. I'm not a newbie and it took me a while to figure out how to do simple things using wordpress other than just setting it up initially. The problem is that the forums are just not conducive to finding what you need. I'd sooner put up a phpBB forum and bedone with it.
    There's nothing that says you can't. It's not like you're the first to think about it.

    Second there is no organization of efforts. There is no section that provides a list of completed plugins, themes, etc. It's a bunch of different places trying to compile things for the benefit of others that is a constant effort.

    The sooner this place is organized the better.
    And yet, you offer no solutions. Maybe you should join the wp-forums list and see what's really going on behind the scenes. And maybe instead of bitching about it, actualy do something constructive.

    I hope and pray we don't got to a forum set up. While this may (or may not) take some getting used to, it's much easier than reading a forum format.
    As some one constantly on forums, that's debatable, but the current setup isn't really all that different from more traditional ones.

    <emThe search may give you several different directions to look, but at least it does it in a user friendly way.
    Even more debateable. Because the search is handled by a third party (Yahoo!) there's a lot of extranneous information that comes back in the summary that (IMHO) shouldn't be there. By the time you get past the "User: PAssword: this is not resolved, this is not a support issue" you're lucky to get the first couple of words out of the post. And quite often, it's very hard to tell from that little bit if it's relevant. I'd find it more usefull if it showed me the text surrounding my search words (the way Google does)... it would at least put it into context and I could better tell if my search was truly effective.

    I'm even hesitant to post this because I don't consider my problem handicapping but rather a challenge to work through.
    But don't be afraid to post when you hit that wall. Part of the trick is to know when you can no longer see the forest for the trees. There isn't a single one of use here (including the long time residents) that hasn't been at some point where we just go "I just don't know how the #@$% how to do that." or "What the.....?" and ask for help. We've all been there. But what gets discouragin is when I see three posts on the front page, each by a different person, with SIMILAR titles, and nearly the exact same problem in their post.

    As for doing an FAQ. The problem is the FAQ changes with the moon. Each week it's a different problem. And having it is only as good if people are willing to search it out and see if their problem is in it. But since some of them don't even search, I doubt they're looking for the FAQ any way.

    Which brings me to my next .... umm..... point of contention. The only way that the search will work, is if people *know* what to search for.

    The following text, has the following results:
    "looping through the posts"
    44 hits. The first three are about "looping of child pages", "looping inside a plugin", and "looping over categories." The fourth result is *finaly* about looping through posts.... but in the context of multiple loops. "Looping the Loop" finaly comes in at fifth place. And that's because I have an idea of what to search for. I shudder to think of what the layperson would search for.

    -tg

  3. slink
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    Ahhhh.... nothing like a smart-ass reply.

    (1) The forum is inadequate and you have dozens of repeat questions because the forum and search are inherently poor. There's no simple way to find your own thread either.

    (2) Regarding suggestions, I made one and your reply is even less helpful which is "don't complain because we've talked about it." This site is so difficult to navigate that it's hard to know who is doing what, where, when and how.

    (3) I've spent my time trying to get WP to work properly as one would expect it to work. It's not smooth and as much as I hate to say this, it has a ways to go until I would use it on a site that people who are not very familiar with ftp/apache/linux and how it works.

    My suggestion: How about explaining why my suggestions were talked about in the manner of the People's Front of Judea but it all resulted in just talk? At the most basic level could nobody put up a phpBB board for support? Could nobody create a forum for "final themes" and "final modules" just like done at vbulletin.org, phpBB and dozens of other places? If everyone here is so smart as you imply, why has no one just done this?

    If you want a volunteer, I'll host the damn thing but I doubt that is what the problem is all about. I'd sooner dump WP and pay $150 for Expression Engine or something similar than waste endless time trying to figure out basics. Don't take my tone as too snippy but try to think what it's like when you rail on someone who comes to a site that really is not well organized and the easiest thing to do is lob some fireworks and see who notices the spark amongst the chaos.

  4. vkaryl
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    "There's no simple way to find your own thread either."

    Excuse me? You follow your own threads either with the "favorites" option in profile, or with an rss feed (IF you must....), or by the very simplest piece of knowledge even the rawest newbie on the net learns: a simple bookmark.

    I started with wp in February this year (with NO previous blog experience AT ALL), as the versions were changing. It took me a whole two days to figure out the basics, and it took me THAT long because of the version change.

    Maybe you better spend that money on expression engine or whatthehellever, bud.

  5. dualravens
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    Personally, the help I get on this page is likely the reason I still use WP and have encouraged others, even those who barely know how to use a mouse, to use it.

    I google in a problem with WP and generally I get pointed in the right direction. Questions get answered, with not only expertise but often genuine excitement, helping me find the answer and helping me learn along the way. The apparent lack of organization comes from the fact this is a very active and fluid community, with the emphasis on answering questions quickly rather than putting everything in nice little boxes.

    The volunteers here go above and beyond expectation in offering genuine help. It isn't bad to point out areas of potential growth but if the majority of people here disagree or find the help here both easy to find and courteous to even repeat questions, then don't be surprised if snarky criticisms are dismissed.

    Personally I love the flow of this forum. Even when I don't have a question I find keeping my eyes on the conversations has helped me head off problems and pointed out new ideas. So thanks all -- you are the reason I keep with WP.

    If folks have trouble with search here or don't know about google yet then there may be better hand-holding forums for them out there... but for quality and quick answers (even if the answer is "we don't know, let's figure it out") I've never seen anything on the net to compare with what goes on here.

  6. Beel
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    Let's let it go, slink started a similar thread and harped, this is just more of the same. Having grown up on a farm I am famiiar with slinks and they require too much time and effort then don't thrive anyway - it's just a waste of time. ;-).

  7. TechGnome
    Moderator
    Posted 8 years ago #

    I had this rather lengthy reply all typed up and ready to submit. But at the last second, I think I'm going to move it to a place where it would be better served: On my blog, proudly powered by WP.

    But I would just like to say this: I'd *much* rather be a smart ass than a dumb donkey. And Bullvine Ecrement, I never said any7thing of the sort.

    -tg

  8. slink
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    What can I say Beel. Considering I was one of the primary people invovled with a CMS project that has over 100,000 downloads and with a network of web sites that did 250 million page views in the 90s, you might as well hang your head in shame back at the farm. As is typical of most php-development sites, if you aren't "in the know" then you're just another uneducated newbie looking for the ftp warez mailing list. The 10% don't bother dealing with what the 90% will experience and would rather fight City Hall than manage the expectations.

    (1) Time is valuable to some of us. We don't need/care to spend extra time learning YABSS because you want to use it. Considering how popular vbulletin/phpBB clones are, kudos to all of you on reinventing the wheel in a more crude fashion.

    (2) It should have been obvious that numerous people will never have seen the bbPress forum so you should have a short FAQ link on the support home page. Instead you have it cluttered with all sorts of topics in varying fonts because it looks cool but it looks more like a disorganized, unchaotic, unprofessional mess.

    What typically happens is that people turn away who actually could be of significant use because they don't care to bother. Project never reaches potential and dies somewhere midstream.

    It seems that all of you smart asses still have an answer about the organization of themes, plug-ins and add-ons in one master location. Go pat yourselves on the back. We'll see where this project is in a year if something so simple like this isn't done...

  9. vkaryl
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    *laughing* Oboy. You ARE a piece of work. Any links to all that "special stuff"?

  10. carburetor
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    I won't get too deep into this argument, but Slink...

    "(1) The forum is inadequate and you have dozens of repeat questions because the forum and search are inherently poor. There's no simple way to find your own thread either."

    I believe you have access to all of your threads via your Profile.

    On a happy note, if you don't like what your mom's cookin', make your own damn p.b. & j.
    That's for those who bitch but can't offer detailed suggestions and offer constructive criticism in a respectful manner (and not in a manner as if the world owes them something). Yeah, it's a bit unorganized in here. But I've never found myself ripping my hair out when I ran into a wall and needed help. Folks like Beel and others have anwsered questions and have been very helpful and cool about it. Maybe WordPress isn't for everyone. For those people, there's Blogger. For those who are patient enough and don't need their hand held and can take the time to search, read the codex, and dig into the code and experiment, and learn enough to someday help others in here...well, WordPress is for them.

    Peace!

  11. carburetor
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    One last thought and some self-righteous comparative suffering - Thousands of people lost their homes in a hurricane, and people are in here complaining about not being able to find solutions. I'm such a self-righteous a'hole.

    I've only had me WordPress blog for about 2 weeks and so far I've been able to find answers to 99.9% of my questions in the codex, and through experimentation with the code. The rest have been answered by the kind folks in this here forum.

    Here's a thought, there's no money in this, so if you're not having fun, go elsewhere. Go spend some cold cash on that thing from Pmachine and all will be right with your little world.

    I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular.
    I'll shut up now.

  12. vkaryl
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    carburetor:

    Okay. You can come. [quote from maybe my favorite movie of all time....]

  13. Beel
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    you da man (from the same movie)

  14. tomhanna
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    How about deleting this thread. I am searching for a way to do a collapsible links list and no matter how I search the top three results are worthless and this is in them.

  15. vkaryl
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    tomhanna: how about using site:http://wordpress.org/support/ plus your search keywords for what you're looking for?

    [Beel: I regret to say that I totally missed your riposte when it happened, and I must thank tomhanna for resurrecting this thread just so I could see it and giggle!]

  16. tomhanna
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    vkaryl, perhaps I wasn't clear. I did use that and this thread came up in the search. That was my point. I eventually found what I was looking for by doing a search on Podz's site instead, since I remembered that, like damn near everything else, he had the answer.

  17. vkaryl
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    Sorry, tomhanna, I figured you meant the normal search box here.

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