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Localization: Help Needed! (102 posts)

  1. Anonymous
    Unregistered
    Posted 10 years ago #

    About the Du/Sie issues, I am just starting to work through this baby ;)
    But I tried to stick closely to what was already there. I guess I can just go for "Du". I guess now'd be a goo time to register on this board ;)

  2. jules
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    I am kind of jumpy about the split (word) - seen *nuke enough.
    Premilinary notes:
    There are three (3) types of changes:
    1) Change in the way strings are written (into the code. As done by Otsukare.)
    2) Changes (to the code) made by the localization team to achieve better operation in foreign lannguages.
    3) Changes (to the code) made by the developers to add features or improve functionality, etc.
    Smooth localization will be a long process. It might just happen that #3 gets far ahead if developed separately. It will be a real struggle to integrate the lines of development in case separate type #2 changes are numerous. You see, there would be changes going both ways. It could be a mess.
    ***********
    NON-split development:
    The task will be easier if the task if executed in two (2) phases: A and B.
    A) First integrate type #1 changes into the code.
    Language is English. - This would yield a WordPress that does not offer any improved localization features. It would be plain vanilla WP 1.01 in English. In other words (English language) strings are in a lang file and not hardcoded into the code.
    Steps to achieve this:
    The current localized WP 1.0 code must be upgraded to reflect the changes in 1.01 (1.02?). I assume it contains type #1 changes ONLY. This would take a few days. During that time current development tree should be freezed.
    (I do not know about CVS much, excuse my ignorance.) The new localized WP 1.01 would be loaded into (a new?) CVS and then tested by the development team. If everything is OK it will become the new WP 1.1X. It will be in English only and functionally equivalent to the 1.01 / 1.02 (moment of freeze).
    B) Development will continue.
    The developers will continue to do what they want to do, type #3 changes. They would be in charge. Base language would be English.
    Localization team will do/ propose type #2 changes to the CVS (discussed somewhere).
    Translators will translate various language files (Wiki collaboration).
    This would lead to gradual development (evolution). There would be no integration crash looming in the horizon.
    **********
    I know this is a lot to ask. It would affect us all. It has to be agreed by everyone, starting with main developers. - I see this as an opportunity not to be missed. If the current proposed localized English version is OK it should be integrated before it falls too far behind. Early integration would save work in the long run.

  3. Jason
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Ok, I can see where you're coming from, jules, and you have some good points. I think what we need is for the developers to let us know what they want to do.

  4. Otsukare
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    As for the split...
    It is possible WordPress itself might split off if we create separate versions, so we cannot make a move on our own.
    I have uploaded the CVS on Sourceforge.jp, but it probably is not easy to use for non-Japanese users.
    For now, it seems the best to create a repository named "Localization," and store a CVS of new code on Sourceforge.NET.

  5. gugus
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    If there is a split it should be a short as possible due to the reasons that Jules mentioned. Been in too many projects where a split enabled us to go forward with our development but the merging of the code later on proved to be a major pain in the arse, i.e. errorprone if not done properly - and on top of that, also errorprone if done properly. The less time and development there is between splitting off and merging, the easier.
    If we can get the dev's to agree on integrating the internationalisation directly into their main branch (or whatever the word in CVS is) that would be best for all and one does not have to worry about splitting off and merging again. I would root for English as first language to be supported as well. After that, localisation can be completely independent of the internationalisation part in the main code.

  6. gugus
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Internationalisation: 1) and 2) of Jules' list.

  7. cinila
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Hello,
    Nao told me about this localization, so I've started the lang_id and I'll have some friends to help me.. :D
    Anyway.. I'm not familiar with the wiki, am I doing a right thing there??

  8. Jason
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Hi all!
    Quick update about localization. I talked with Matt last night, and he really likes the idea of localization, but he also sees the danger any sort of split could pose. For that reason, he'd like to get the groundwork for localization rolled out quickly, without a split
    After tossing around a few ideas, the ultimate decision has been to go with a custom function (wp_translate) so that future changes to translation can all be handled in one spot. wp_translate will work with localization files that will (unfortunately) differ a bit from those currently being worked on in the wiki.
    What does this mean? Well, the localization files in the wiki are good starts, and work can continue on them, but they will have to be converted to the new format at some point, so taking a break for a few days might be a good idea. Before conversion to the new format happens, though, I'm going to finish up the functions needed for translation and start swapping out the english from the current CVS versions of files. As soon as I have the beginnings of a new english localization file ready, I'll make it available so translation can begin.

  9. Stephan
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Lucky I checked this thread before doing any more translations ;-)
    Is the new format going to be similar to what we have now?

  10. jlinares
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Me too :-). I'd like to help with the spanish translation (es_ES, I'm from Spain), tell us where the new format is ready. (jlinares @ irc).

  11. Jason
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Well, things have paused temporarily because there's been a little bit of discussion... everyone just wants to be sure that this is done the right way the first time.

  12. zonble
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    The Traditional Chinese translation for users in Taiwan and Hong Kong is now available; you can download the file ‘lang_tw’ from the URL below:
    http://rt.openfoundry.org/Foundry/Project/Download/Attachment/7744/5915/lang_tw.php

  13. anatman
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    I just realized that the language file doesn't contain text strings for index.php and for wp-includes/template-funcions.php. At least to me, these are the most important files to localize (together with comments.php), becase they have the text that the readers will see!

  14. jtheo
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Hi I'm Matteo and I'm new here. I wish to join the localisation project and write the italian version.
    Someone has an easy way to extract the string for a preliminary orthographic control?

  15. franpereiro
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    I think this is great, but I have one question though, How do we make use of the language files? By stating a "require" in the header of the index file? I would really like to know that. This is really great. I noticed that the spanish translation is going really slow, so I'm doing a spanish translation of my own, when I'm done with it I'll hand it over to you guys. Greetings. :-)

  16. Jean-Pierre Michaud
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Hi... i'd be interested to translate the French lang_fr file... nobody have done it yet ?! (quelqu'un a déjà traduit le fichier français ??) ... i hope that Matt read this and implement this global effort work to the next 1.1 release...

  17. Anonymous
    Unregistered
    Posted 10 years ago #

    ... i hope that Matt read this and implement this global effort work to the next 1.1 release...

    Me, too - :-D.

  18. Anonymous
    Unregistered
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Any news on that ?? - :-D

  19. Anonymous
    Unregistered
    Posted 10 years ago #

    To Jason, Matt:
    Is there a date on the wp_translate thing. It's been an month since the annoucement of the wp-translate function. And there are now 10's of localized files based on Otsukare's version. Doesn't it just take a couple days if Matt work with Otsukare on the issue.

  20. ArthurG
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    No update 5 weeks after Otsukare effort ?
    Devs, are u still working on this highly important feature ?
    at least may we have a simple roadmap with dates and milestones ?
    and FYI, I would be glad to help on the french translation :)

  21. Anonymous
    Unregistered
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Hello all, I'm also waiting for some decision about the translations, or at least updates of the progress.
    I'm thinking about transalate my blog to swedish since the rest of my current site is swedish, but I want to follow the recomendations.
    //Robert

  22. Otsukare
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Upgrading to WP v1.0.2 Multilingual Edition
    Go to http://sourceforge.jp/projects/wordpress/files/ and download wp102-multi.zip.
    Then overwrite *all* existing files (except wp-layout.css) with what you've just downloaded; most of the files are modified since the last version (v1.0.1-miles).
    After that, proceed as follows:
    * If you are using the newest release from wordpress.org (wordpress-1.0.2-blakey):
    --> go to /wp-admin/change.php
    * If you are using the last release from wordpress.org (wordpress-1.0.1-miles):
    --> go to /wp-admin/change.php
    * If you are using v1.01 Japanese Edition provided by wordpress.xwd.jp:
    --> go to /wp-admin/change.php
    * If you are using v1.0 Multilingual Edition provided by wordpress.xwd.jp:
    --> go to /wp-admin/upgrade.php
    At last, delete these files you won't need anymore:
    change.php、upgrade.php、upgrade-functions.php、upgrade-functions.php
    I've ended distribution of Japanese Edition (not "Multilingual" Edition) as of March 12.
    Please use Multilingual Edition instead so we can stay compatible with wordpress.org's original version.

  23. anatman
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Ok, nice to see that the project went forward!
    However, i would like to point out that the language file covers only the administration files. The index.php file in the multilingual edition still has hard-coded text in it (e.g. "Filed under:"). I think that if we want WP to be really multi-lingual, we have to focus not only on the authors, but on the readers too...
    For example, after 4 or 5 months using WP, today i published a post closed to comments, only to discover that the comments_popup_link() function, which is deep inside wp-includes/template-funciotns.php, uses a $none variable that throws a "Comments off" english text on the page.
    Now, it looks bad to a reader if i have all the page in portuguese (say), but there is a single phrase in english.
    I don't mean to just criticize - ithink this project is very important. But i think that someone who is authoring with WP is expected to know some english, the same doesn't go for readers.
    Cheers,
    Eduardo

  24. Xavier Borderie
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    This is great news!
    What about the file format ? Does it stay the same, or is it about to change, as Jason hinted ?
    Can we resume translating in the current fileformat ?

  25. Anonymous
    Unregistered
    Posted 10 years ago #

    You guys should look at Java's mechanisms for Internationalization and Localization - they've already worked all this out, and it works really nicely.
    And a nice idea if you haven't considered it is just to use the user's locale (which they set in their browser - you can get it from the request) to determine what language to display messages in.

  26. Anonymous
    Unregistered
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Sorry, I didn't get it:( What should I do to translate my blog in to diffirent language (in my case its russian)?

  27. > What should I do to translate my blog in to diffirent language?
    Translation is being done at http://wiki.wordpress.org. Go to:
    http://wiki.wordpress.org/index.php/WordPressLocalization
    and create your language's page.
    post translation of the phrases on this page (e.g. 'Edit timestamp' etc.):
    http://wiki.wordpress.org/index.php/lang_en
    Here's "How to Use Wiki"
    http://wiki.wordpress.org/index.php/HowToUseWiki
    Hope this helps!

  28. anatman
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    My, people are not listenning!
    Look: translation as it is being done now will not translate the blog. It will only translate the admin pages. The page that readers actually read has hard-coded english that must be changed in the index.php page and inside some functions (template-funcions.php).
    Somebody (Otsurake?) more involved in the coding would take a look at this, please?

  29. Anonymous
    Unregistered
    Posted 10 years ago #

    Thank you for helping me!
    I have translated WP to russian. How can I apply the language to the blog now?
    anatman, it translates not only the admin pages, but also registration, login etc. index.php and other stuff can be easily translated manually.

  30. jules
    Member
    Posted 10 years ago #

    This is my interpretation of the events unfolding before our eyes. This is my guess:
    WP core developers are still looking into the translation issue. When they are ready they will publish the official -or right- format for language files. It is a complicated choice. There are several issues to consider.
    In the meanwhile we will have to do with the language file format (and method of translation) provided by the WP Multilingual Edition. This file format you find currently on WP Wiki Localization pages. - This language format is an 'easy' or 'common' format. Nothing wrong in that. It is very good.
    To use this 'easy' or current lang file format you have to use WP Multilingual Edition. The lang files work only with it. If I am not mistaken the Multilingual Edition is maintained by Otsukare. If there are functional changes to WP the same changes will be made to Multilingual Edition as well. Find your updates there.
    I believe what we have here is a parallel version of WP. It simply fullfills the needs of multilingual users in the short term. It is not a fork. Something was bound to fulfill the void: after almost 2 months there is still no official lang file format available.
    If you translate the strings and use the current lang file format your work will no be in vain. Whatever the right file format will be the same strings will have to be translated. But it might involve a lot of 'cutting and pasting' when converting.
    As for whether a particular translation is complete or not - I have not installed the Multilingual Edition. But having done some translating in the past there are always odd sentences deep down that are left in English. Even in programs that have claimed to be fully multilingual for several years. To hunt down those we need community effort. - So, a lot of work ahead.
    I hope I did not offend anyone...

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