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Learn From Your Mistakes (9 posts)

  1. Mosin Mark
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #

    First let me say that while I do not like the new version I appreciate the effort that went into it. With that said it's clear the majority of people here seem to dislike completely or to some extent the admin panel. What I found disturbing was the attitude I read if you don't like it too bad. I also read a post that stated if you don't like it get involved. That is where the communication break down occurred I truly believe.

    I went back and read the developers posts here. The single most blaring issue I could see is no one had input there from the end users. It seemed like a bunch of devs saying this is the new system and they are going to have to like it. Not a good business practice, Yeah don't give the that change is inevitable blah blah.. This isn't a consumer product that needs flash and colors in the back end, it's a product that needs to be lean and fast. As has been stated here many times before "if it isn't broke don't fix it". I say simply tune it up.

    I run several large e commerce sites based on WP and Woo commerce. The new update basically obliterated the product pages on these sites. SKU numbers were all out of whack, because of the new color pallet certain product bubbles were missing etc. I alerted Woo to the problem as of yet they have not released a fix. Woo does not allow you to edit the CSS code so it's truly broken. Yes I installed the plugin to return the admin panel but this is only good till the next update blows something else up.

    Not once did I read anywhere of concern for the end user having issues. It was more about how cool this is going to be and how we need to stop calling it MP6, or concern that the seaweed color theme makes the cut. Now I wasn't privy to the phone meetings and the devs don't post the minutes of those so I can only address what was posted

    WP is so much more than it's original concept now, BUT work flow is the most critical. Just because some interface is the "trend" doesn't mean it has proper work flow. As a software developer your goal is not to make something pretty, but something that is conducive to helping the end user be more productive. The mere fact there was little or no forethought given to the fact during the design that some users might need that old admin panel design makes this totally evident.

    In all reality what should have happened was 3.8 should have been pushed out with the old style admin as default with the option to use the new interface. It would have satisfied all parties in the matter while allowing you to test the new platform. That way you could have collected meta data on what works and what doesn't without breaking the end users sites.

    The other issue you may want to reconsider is auto updates. This is a very bad idea. Imagine an e commerce site or a high traffic site taken down by a pushed update and no way to roll back. Wow that's a disaster waiting to happen. The worst part would be that it would keep breaking itself over and over because WP would keep trying to auto update again and again.

    Thanks for your time
    MM

  2. Andrew
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 6 months ago #

    The other issue you may want to reconsider is auto updates.

    You can turn them off: http://codex.wordpress.org/Configuring_Automatic_Background_Updates#Disabling_Automatic_Updates - If you need support with that create a thread in the "How-To" forum, although I wouldn't dismiss security updates so easily

  3. Andrew
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 6 months ago #

    In all reality what should have happened was 3.8 should have been pushed out with the old style admin as default with the option to use the new interface. It would have satisfied all parties in the matter while allowing you to test the new platform. That way you could have collected meta data on what works and what doesn't without breaking the end users sites.

    You know 3.8 was pushed out for a while in beta so that people (including the developers behind WooCommerce) could test it? People really shouldn't be testing on their live site on the day of the final release. They can keep up with the releases and give feedback in alpha or beta.

  4. Andrew
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 6 months ago #

    Woo does not allow you to edit the CSS code so it's truly broken.

    It looks like you can add your own CSS, whether or not WooCommerce "allow" it: http://wordpress.org/support/topic/38-admin-panel-design-is-very-bad?replies=91#post-4996204

  5. Mosin Mark
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #

    Funny this came in an email directly from Woo when I was looking for support for the color issue
    "No Customization Policy

    We provide our Products as is. We do not customise our Products or support any 3rd Party customisations of our Products. A customisation is anything that changes the way our Products look or function relative to how we make our Products available to you.
    Mike K

    Mike K (WooThemes)

    Dec 15 19:08 (UTC)

    So by this statement if I changed anything in the way it "looks" I loose product support.

    Thanks
    Mark

  6. Mosin Mark
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #

    Andrew Nevins wrote:

    You know 3.8 was pushed out for a while in beta so that people could test it?

    In all reality it would have made no difference. First off how many of us have time to play with a beta site? Even if one or 2 beta testers said something the reality is once you've headed a direction your not going to change it.
    Thanks
    MM

  7. Mosin Mark
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #

    You can turn them off: http://codex.wordpress.org/Configuring_Automatic_Background_Updates#Disabling_Automatic_Updates - If you need support with that create a thread in the "How-To" forum, although I wouldn't dismiss security updates so easily

    Who dismisses them, My sites have alarms that alert me to any update to a plugin or WP. I take security VERY seriously. I do remember several updates that were pushed out that lasted about a week and there was another one right behind it. I typically wait a week or so now because of this before I update.

    I typically harden all my all sites, I've attended seminars on how to harden your site using certain techniques and softwares. The problem is I as a user don't have an option, IF I update to get the fixes you change the way I work and most importantly my clients (who for the most part are not uber tech savvy)do their work. So your sticking some of us between a rock and a hard place. Security or HOURS trying to explain why things have changed and where things are.

    Now that there is a plugin that somewhat returns the admin panel to normal. (the very first 2 versions crashed a couple clients sites) I can somewhat return them to a normal work routine and thus get back to a normal schedule for them.

    Andrew, please don't get me wrong on this, I totally appreciate all the hard work it takes to create Word Press.

  8. Andrew
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 6 months ago #

    Who dismisses them, My sites have alarms that alert me to any update to a plugin or WP. I take security VERY seriously.

    To clarify, your automatic updates are regarding WordPress core or plugins?

    Andrew, please don't get me wrong on this, I totally appreciate all the hard work it takes to create Word Press.

    Yeah it shows :) You're healthily discussing your concerns. It's almost obvious who doesn't appreciate it when they slander the developers behind WP.

  9. To clarify one thing: Auto updates, as built by WordPress, update one thing only -- minor point releases. WP 3.7 to 3.7.1 was updated via the automatic updater. Nothing else, no plugins, no themes, and certainly not 3.7.1 to 3.8, was automatically pushed. So please remove that from your argument list here. WP core didn't do that to you. :)

    With that said it's clear the majority of people here seem to dislike completely or to some extent the admin panel.

    Funnily enough, that's incorrect. A high number of vocal people here on the forums dislike it. An equally high number of people here on the forums have said nothing. It would be a gross assumption for us to assume they like or dislike the admin panel. They are, as they always are, Schroedinger's Users :)

    Basically you don't know, any more than I do, what the true metrics are yet for this. I know that WordPress.com has been running the backend like this for longer, and they got a lot of UI/UX feedback about functionality there.

    As has been stated here many times before "if it isn't broke don't fix it". I say simply tune it up.

    Change happens. I've been here a while, and I saw the kerfluffle the last time we updated the admin panel. Every time anything changes in WP, we get this. And please don't think the devs dismiss any of this, it's just that nothing you, or anyone else yet, has said is something we didn't already know. Just because you didn't see the backchannel talk in IRC about that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Of course we considered the users.

    By the way, a lot of things were broken. If you'd ever tried to theme the old admin panel, it was difficult. Writing plugins/themes to mesh with the design was harder than it should have been, even with the built in tools and hooks we have :)

    Now that said, the fact that you're saying a 3rd party plugin, WooCommerce (core woo?) did not take this change into account is sad. It's not like they didn't know, by the way, this was coming, and I'm surprised they missed that. Then again, you can't possibly expect them to test everything (it's a mathematically improbability).

    First off how many of us have time to play with a beta site?

    Around 50 thousand (if we base this on the 105,349 downloads of the Beta tester plugin, and adjust for reality). Not to mention those who are on nightly releases, trunk, or who just test a lot.

    Honestly? A lot of us :)

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