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Is It Important to Validate? (19 posts)

  1. Amulet
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    How important is it for a website to validate its markup? I find it kind of difficult to get pages to validate when some of the HTML is generated by the Template Tags, especially when I use a pre-created theme that doesn't validate. I appreciate your responses. Thank you.

  2. jbbrwcky
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    I think it's absolutely important.

    But honestly I think it's all a matter of personal opinion.

  3. Lester Chan
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    on the other hand I think it is not important but rather a physiological thing.

  4. whooami
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    physiological?

    perhaps you meant to say psychological?

  5. jbbrwcky
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    Hehe whooami - maybe he really did mean physiological? You've seen people have road rage, this could be the first documented example of code rage! I have actually seen peers of mine in the past get seriously mad at messy code... this might just be an extension of that.

  6. whooami
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    code rage. hahaha, thats funny :)

  7. Amulet
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    Thanks, y'all (and I still welcome more responses)! Love the "code rage" comment...I relate to that, which is why I'm wondering if I should bother, and just accept things as is, other than fixing the errors I keep getting (I wrote about those in another post in the troubleshooting section, but got no responses :( ).

  8. whooami
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    amulet : this other thread, http://wordpress.org/support/topic/112532?replies=1, assuming thats the one you are referring to .. those aren't validation issues.

    If you want to know the primary reason for validating, go check out your site using browsercam

    http://www.browsercam.com

    You validate for your visitors as much as yourself.

    Consider this: bad code in, bad page out.

  9. Root
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    There is an informed body of opinion which says that validation is overrated. My view is that whether a blog validates exactly or not - it is a very useful aid in development, and fault finding. The trick is to view it as a friend- not as a hurdle.

  10. Amulet
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    whoo, I know those aren't validation issues. I'm just saying I have some errors to fix, and also wonder if I need to worry about validation.

    I know different computers, browser and all that see my site differently, even if it validates. That's why I wonder if it matters at all.

  11. whooami
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    Amulet,

    you "sound" like you want to hear that it doesn't.

    I'll restate my own experience.

    Except for VERY minor issues, my own site does NOT display differently in different browsers. Unless of course, you include browsers that dont support a certain facet of some CSS that I have used.

    There is one safari issue that I am aware of that has nothing to do with validation.

    Firefox is forgiving - far more forgiving than IE. Thats precisely WHY there are hundreds of posts here where someone's site looks great in it, but not in *some* version of IE.

    I myself came across an archive page just the other day where a div issue was causing the dreaded "dropped sidebar" on my site.

    I hadn't previously seen it, because I use Firefox as my primary browser.

    Point is, how many people viewed that page in IE looked at that and went, "ugh, I cant read this" and left?

    In the end, everyone is going to spend as much time as _they want_ honing their site and their skills. If you dont want a valid site, that dont do the necessary work -- and yes, it IS work. I, personally, find it to be very gratifying work, though.

  12. Amulet
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    You're right. I don't want it to be necessary to validate it. I have a thousand things to do, and just want to get my site up, with a decent design, and post. There aren't a whole lot of validation errors, on the bright side, but I couldn't remember what the reason for validation was.

    Thanks for your reply.

  13. Root
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    One of the reasons for validation is browser inconsistency. Now it is perfectly true that a valid site will not necessarily render correctly across platform, but valid mark up gives us a firm, consistent, measureable and well understood baseline. We can then apply known techniques for the various browsers within a constant framework of valid markup. Once we deviate outside this framework we are in completely unknown territory. It is not sensible to complain about what the browser is doing (or not) while serving it unrecogniseable tag soup. Validation is our friend. Incidentally to any one who has the proper tools fitted, it is a simple process to validate as you go along. I do not agree with an earlier comment that Firefox is forgiving. It's not. But it's not meant to be. That is a good thing. When IE encounters an error anything can happen. Although that might seem useful it has resulted in the mess that generally prevails on the internet. I find it very difficult keeping abreast of all the known variations in browsers. It is only possible at all when those variations are stated as behaviorial deviations in the face valid mark up. Otherwise there is no reference point. Hope that makes sense. :)

    The worst reason to validate is because you have been made to feel that *you should do it*.

  14. whooami
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    root, FF is forgiving -- in the context of comparing it to IE. I saw it last week on my site, trust me :)

    Other than that, I agree 1000% w/ everything that you said, and quite eloquently, if I can say so.

    "It is not sensible to complain about what the browser is doing (or not) while serving it unrecogniseable tag soup."

    That ought to be a lot of people's mantra :)

  15. jbbrwcky
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    I'm like you whooami, I view everything in FF and sometimes forget to view it in IE. I've also had that sinking feeling when I thought everything was ok, only to see it a week or two later in IE. !@#$

    Root is right - FF is not forgiving, and again, it's good that it isn't. We code consistently well, view it in FF, validate it and we're happy that is looks as we wanted it to and validates. Sadly, we then have to repeat the whole process for browsers that consistently don't do things the way code was designed to.

  16. whooami
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    well, ok. I give then :)

  17. Root
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    The real question here that by implication is being posed by the OP is not about validation at all. The real question is how does some one who is lets say not an advanced user go about coding up themes so that they run well in all/most browsers. And does validation play any part in that? Those are big questions and probably some way outside the scope of this forum. Nirvana is when you can do markup which you just know will look OK pretty much everywhere. But please do not ask me how to get there. :)

  18. Amulet
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    That's a really good point, Root. I have found many themes don't validate, and often have errors. I know enough to usually be able to fix them, and as far as validation goes, I can usually figure it out, but I tend to be slower than others at getting everything right. It's not that I don't want to validate; it's just that I have so much to do (we're moving soon, I have research to do, books to read, etc.). But I'm going to attempt to do it.

    I really do appreciate everyone's comments. And if anyone can tell me about those errors in http://wordpress.org/support/topic/112532?replies=1 --at least what is causing them, because I keep receiving emails about them, even when I haven't worked on my site--I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

  19. KirkM
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #

    (Chuckle)

    Did you know this page does not validate giving 2 errors?

    sorry....sorry couldn't help myself but it's true.

    I know my site does not validate. I also know that if I test it using IE 7.0, Opera and Firefox on my computer and IE 6.0 on my wife's computer, the site renders and operates correctly and several of my readers use Macs with Safari. So far no complaints. Of course, I can't control whether a reader has java installed or disabled on their own machine.

    I'm not defending anything here but I've found that most sites and blogs don't validate yet render and operate correctly in the above mentioned browsers including many of the "Pro blogger" sites.

    So why do I get so irritated when I come back to my blog not validating when I know it works just fine?

    Perhaps it is psychological.

    Just my two bits. So far I haven't found any solid answers anywhere.

    Personal preference?

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