Posted 7 years ago #
I am seeing a lot of people coming in and asking for feedback on sites which are clearly built.nicked.copied, etc., from Kubrick or other strong, pre-existing designs.
I sure would like to see more people leaving the credits in, or adding them. I think no one minds if you get creative, but you did NOT build the design from scratch, so it wrong to call it your own.
The End.
Posted 7 years ago #
I think overly harsh in your sentiment, but I concur. The authors of these themes do this for free and without asking for anything back - many don't even ask for a link back, but it's just courtesy to do so. A link in the CSS is fine bu a bit useless because 99% will not view your CSS only your site.
When you finally build your own theme from scratch and then have some one download it and remove every reference from the site bar your CSS you will probably be just as happy as the author that you probably started your theme from and chose to remove the credits.
Does it really bother people that much to show that you didn't make the site from scratch? Still, let's not peopel over the head with a very large wooden spoon. I guess teach but don't preach?
I agree about giving credit, but can understand how some can get removed not necessarily on purpose but with other ways.
Mine for example, the footer is completely free of WP linkage, does this make me a bad person? I removed it because I broke something in the php code and I replaced it with a plain link to my site, copy and pasted from a static page. This was done not in spite of WP but was done as a quick fix. Do I intend to change this? No but the links have been left in place from the sidebar from the classic version of WP. I know yesterday when I first released spiderman there was mention of mine being a modified classic. There was also mention that Spiderman did not get hurt before hand so when modifying css today I simply highlighted all the text and cut it out as I did not want the Spiderman refferance.
Sometimes when people are busy with many things going on, for instance I may have my five month old in my lap trying to write code and I simply remove parts that are easy not to slight anyone. That is why when you visit my test site I credit WP as well as the support forum, I did not mention names because the list would grow longer eah day and I did not want to forget anyone who may have helped. I think that some should just lighten up as we do not know why some things in code may be removed. Personally the refferances made in css for Kubrick are the main reason I do not use it. ie bicycle built for two as well as many others.
But what about someone like myself who took one theme, and spent nearly 2 solid days making code changes, CSS changes, and other tweaks, only to come the end of the weekend and noticing only 25% of the original theme was still intacked? I actually used code from 3 themes, and the codex. Does this mean I should still give credit to the original author, even though the site has changed internally quite a bit?
Thats a hard call I understand what you are saying. If you take a look at classic and then my blog it does not resemble classic one bit. Mainly the only thing left that was not changed was the calendar but I left it although I do not use the calendar.
Basically I am just using a template I designed on my site for a contest I had a year ago.
My blog has this template that I did a long time ago as seen here, it looks nothing like classic.
As you can see all credits are given but then I knew who for the credits that participated.
1. In the WP 1.5 package the so-called "Default WordPress" theme does NOT have any credit in the footer for design!
2. It has a link to WP's site (this one), but again, under the GPL license it is NOT mandatory.
3. It is exactly like people picking their nose :) - It's not nice, but there is no law forbidding it. You can dislike it, despise it, hate it... but you cannot force anyone not to do it.
Manners and laws are two different realm.
Posted 7 years ago #
Well as I said, it's a courtesy - it would be nice to see authors who do the work to get some sort of linkage back. It's not a law, sure, but's it the community spirit surely?
moshu I was referring to linkage in footer, not credits.
dawg, I wasn't referring to you. My answer was mainly for the OP - I should have mentioned it, sorry. I just get annoyed by self-appointed guards of credits (or anything else for that matter...).
Posted 7 years ago #
I did not mean to be harsh, I tend to just come across that way when I write. It is a constant battle.
I just get annoyed by self-appointed guards of credits (or anything else for that matter...). I have to agree with you on that one, I rememember when I had not even had my blog up for about an hour when I got a post referring to credit, I hated the theme that was in place and was going to change it.
This was posted on my blog {Maybe you should read Michael Heilemann (original author of kubrick) most recent post at binarybonsai dot com
Just a thought :) }
Those darn credit gaurds
I wonder who would post a link to this but it did seem nasty.
http://binarybonsai.com/archives/2005/01/09/villagers-demand-credit/
This is exactly why I've started taking to making my own layouts from scratch.... plus it makes it easier to modify, since I don't have to guess what's what.
My own 2 cents..... If you've taken a theme from some one else and hacked and slashed it, at least give a nod to the original... something along the lines of "Inspired by XYZ Design by What's His Face."
And I would think that most designers would agree, it's not something that has to be on every page (like in the footer), but at least acknoledged *somewhere* even if in the "About Me," "Credits," or "Colophon."
I think the tough part is deciding what is a change? Is changing the background color from white to blue a "change" or is it simply customizing? What if I leave all colors and placings & typeface, but replace all the images? Is that significant enough? shrug.
It's a tough call. Personaly, I say that if there is any doubt, simply add a Thank You section and give the original author a small blurb.
Tg
Very well written TechGnome.
It seems to me that this sort of think will happen quite a bit to the "default" template. The vast majority of people using WP are not going to create a template from scratch. By calling Kubrick the default, it can give the impression that it's not a "design", but rather a good place to start and customise from there. If this is a serious problem then perhaps Kubrick shouldn't be called default, or the expectations for credit should be more clearly laid out (or it should be released under a different license).
Posted 7 years ago #
Actually this depends on the author, i've just releases a theme i've called equiX and it is made from scratch... not even from the classic template because it was my blogger design on the first place but now i've ported to wordpress using a lot of info taken from the codex and this forum...
License: If it is released under a gpl, like the one i made, you can use it and make a completely diferent version or just change the header image but no link back or atribution is required.
Of course that it will be apreciated if you leave the link to my site and you also give proper atribution to a possible modification but if you choose not to do it it is fine, if i've wanted to have credit i would have released it under another licence or even charge for it.
Posted 7 years ago #
Putting aside the courtesies for a moment - what I dislike are people in breach of the licence whatever that may be. And authors who should know better who *stipulate* a link is required WTF stipulation ? Is it Creative Commons. Or is it GPL. Thats one. Two. Internally we are beginning to distinguish betwen a theme and a style. Eg: Gemini developed by Root Styled by Joni (say :). Gemini is currently unlicensed. if its GPL no link is required. At the same time the theme author can be credited for design, and by releasing the style under the Creative Commons can require it to be so. It also kills off these *When is Kubrick not Kubrick* type of questions. In the case of the default as it released under the GPL no link is required. If your are the designer - then its bad luck. But I do not think any one should kinda hint that WP users have obligations that go one inch beyond what WP has signed us up for - GPL. If you do not like it then do not do open source.
Actually this depends on the author Quote xmarcos
I think you are right on that, I know I have about 200 downloads on the theme I released. I personally know of only one user "vkaryl" only because he made comments to it. I respect his implementation of it and thanks. I am sure some Authors try to trace or track who may be using their theme but myself I am not one of them.
I think Kubricks main problem with his is the overwhelming ammount of extra comments in his css. It is just shy of thanking Grandma Ethel. Also include are pictures of himself/maybe not but appears very egotistical.
Myself, personally, I delete comments that make no sense to me as when I am coding it is a distraction to read through this. My main reason for not using the default is this.
Posted 7 years ago #
Totally agree on both of you, first of all as i said before and root also mentioned if it is released under a GPL then no link back or credit is required, the only thiong you need to do is release your work under the same license... if you don't like this just use a cc or another license but stay out of Open Source.
And dawg, i think comments on the css help people to understand how the theme works, but yes the stupid non-sense comments are totally useless and should be removed.
I agree xmarcos about comments made in a constructive way, I even add some to point out where to change font color, add jpg for header to simplify these things so that beginners do not have a hard time, I was referring to useless comments
Posted 7 years ago #
[First, dawg, thank YOU for the nice comments - and as a point of ref, I'm female instead of the opp....]
I would like to say a couple of things: it is extremely important in my view to leave ALL copyright info intact even when I have paid for, say, a graphic and that payment allows me to remove the links etc. It's important to me because the creative is the one who should receive credit, acknowledgement, and kudos - and leaving the copyright info and links is a way to give something back.
Second, I really appreciated dawg's commenting sections of his CSS - it made it easier for me (though the only thing I did was "tone down" the peach content div a bit and add the plugins in the sidebar....)
"Giving back" goes both ways, folks. Those who "give back" to the open source community in whatever way deserve to be given back TO - by leaving links and credits intact, and showing notice that a particular individual was the originator.
sorry bout the gender issue vkarly! screen names who knows, my second mistake in as many as days.
I just made adjustment to mine also, the content, actually many colors came from the header div and it looks more linen/light beige, nice touch.
Posted 7 years ago #
I believe in giving credit where credit is due. In the case of a widely distributed template, it's always **nice** to see oneself credited with the basic template. Reason? Someone else may come along and like that design. Since you wouldn't want him blatantly and in wholesale fashion ripping off **your** (wink, wink) design, refer him back to the original.
I've often come across a feature on a site and wondered where it came from and how I might get it for myself. A colophon or About This Site is a handy place to dump all that information for those of us who DO care where you might have gotten that handy-dandy calendar or color picker or other site widget!
As for design, there have been lengthy discussions about when a design stops being an original design and morphs into something entirely different. With some of my web design clients, they've taken that design ball and run with it, ruining some of my best handiwork. It's times like that when I WISH my name wasn't on that hideous page with the retina-burning backgrounds and garish text. Why? Because when they took it upon themselves to slap on a different background than the one I'd so carefully either chosen or designed specifically for them, it ceased to be **my** creation and certainly ceased to be anything I would be proud to call mine.
Just my two for the day. You guys are getting off cheap! ha ha!
Posted 7 years ago #
That's a GREAT idea, jonimueller - using the "colophon"! Thanks for that tip. And I hear your pain on the clients and your name on something that's NOT what you designed - been there done that one way too many times....
[Dawg, that's okay - I just figured it would make things easier (you know, in case I at some point say something outré which would sound WAY weird coming from a guy....!)]
Posted 7 years ago #
Incidentally - folks who cheerfully remove links seem to be blissfully unaware of the immense benefits of their outgoing links of all kinds to them . If they really understood watch lists and services like technorati they would be adding links not taking them out.
Posted 7 years ago #
Personally I will be releasing my themes (if they are ever finished, which at the current rate of progress is doubtful) under a Creative Commons license which is compatible with the GPL. If authors can't be bothered to license their work under CC, or have just slapped the GPL on it without thinking through the implications, they have no right to complain when others fail to credit them.
Both Kubrick and Classic are part of the WordPress distribution and therefore no credit is required. The authors gave up their copyright when they agreed to the inclusion of their templates; they traded credit for kudos. Ultimately it's the designer's responsibility to establish the ground rules, not the community's. And if theme developers don't care whether or not they get credited, to be honest I don't either, and I'm not quite sure why anyone else would. Most of us can tell a Kubrick-based theme at a glance, and judge it accordingly.
(And yes... being credited for something hideous; been there, done that. I try to avoid it in my TOS -- 'if you've modified it, we should BOTH get proper credit!' type of thing -- but I'm sure it still goes on.)
Ultimately it's the designer's responsibility to establish the ground rules, not the community's.
NTU, that's why I said above I hate the self-appointed credit guards :)
It seems we fully agree on this issue.
Posted 7 years ago #
notthatugly, I see your point.... but I was under the impression that Kubrick's creator Michael Heilemann at least was not really happy when he noted sites which failed to properly note that Kubrick was the inception for "the theme"....
[And while "the crédit gardai" might make some of you unhappy, I still maintain that it IS the responsibility of the site owner to acknowledge what came from who.... AND provide a visible link. It's only fair.]
vkaryl,
Kubrick's creator MH "was not really happy" two months ago, when his design was not part of the WP download package, and people were using it as ONE of the possible styles/templates/themes for their sites.
I cannot imagine that putting the K-theme in the default distro of WP was done without his knowledge and approval. From that moment on he (or anyone else) has no right to claim anything - except what is in the license delivered with the WP.
Further discussion on this is just wasting everybody's time.
WTF are we debating here about non-required credits and links?
Yes he{Michael Heilemann} even posted about it on his blog. Made a refferance that when he finds someone that does not pay homage, he will visit their site and leave a little note.
Maybe I will search the archives here because when I was so green(newbie to wp) I wanted to change the classic to resemble a static page that I posted a link here, someone replied that I should use the Kubrick template which was similiar but no cigar. I did implement it but removed the footer as it was and within the hour I had just such a post about that with a link to his site.
I really felt set-up, I was not even wild about Kubrick but just implemented it cause the classic was far from what I wanted.
Maybe it was Micheal himself that suggested Kubrick.
And I see know we can finally edit our profiles. Thanks
Posted 7 years ago #
Excuse me for stepping on your toes, moshu. It doesn't matter that it's "not required" - creative credit should never be optional. Period.
Mind, I did not start this thread. I did not see a "support maven" step in to say "let's not go there".
But again, excuse me.
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