WordPress.org

1. concepthue
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #
   

   http://www.concepthue.com/blog

   I created and am currently using this theme I made. I'm still tweaking it and I need to get feedback on it before ever considering releasing it to the public to use.

   I want to make sure it works. I know older browsers may have issues with it because of CSS2. However, fortunately it's been some time since these new features were released so many browsers now are very much compatible. I don't know about AOL, but that's the first thing that jumps to my mind for potential issues.

   I also added some nice java effects to it...for more interest, dynamic, and to simply test out the javascript.

   So, feel free to leave me some feedback for this theme.
   Thanks,

   Tom

2. moshu
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #
   

   To be honest I hate scrolbars. Scroll to see the post, scroll in the comment box... I don't think I like it.

3. concepthue
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #
   

   yup. me too, but sadly every web site has scroll bars. especially blogs. how else are you gonna read the content??

   at least this scroll bar doesn't take you away from the navigation like the regular scroll bars everyone else uses.

   how did it view anyway? any visual glitches?

4. moshu
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #
   

   Well, one scrollbar in the browser's right side is more than enough. And regradless where the cursor is I can use the wheel on my mouse. Having two more scrollbars inside the site - that's the thing that annoyes me...

   It's a bit "boxy" but that was the intent, I guess.

5. concepthue
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #
   

   yea. i know what you mean. i do believe the area is pretty well maximized though for the main reading area.

   and this is part of something that i will change with the next design actually, though not because i dislike it, but because the javascript effect i want to apply to it won't allow for it to be scrolling.

   you still can use your wheel on your mouse though...i do all the time. like you said just need to have it over the box.

   what i really wanted to do was make the comment box able to be expanded upward to allow for more viewing area, BUT again, the script won't allow that because it's scrolling.

   i am curious to know your resolution though. that may play a big factor. if it's really high then yea, you're working with a small window for content. if its 1280x1024 or less, you're seeing more like what i am and i feel the room is ample enough.

   thanks!

6. moshu
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #
   

   It doesn't matter. Others might like it. I am not here to listen your arguments why do you have scrollbars.
   I don't like them. Period. I'll never use a theme that has them. But that's just me.

   You asked for opinions. I gave one. Don't try to argue and to explain everything. I am not interested. (I guess others aren't either.)
   Wait for more feedback... and apply them or not. It's up to you. But arguing with every feedback doesn't lead anywhere.

7. Mark (podz)
   Support Maven
   Posted 7 years ago #
   

   It resized my browser (FF 1.5 on PC)
   Very very bad.

   Sites like that I never go back to.

8. pcmt
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #
   

   I agree with moshu and podz, plus I'm not keen on a heavy reliance on JavaScript, especially for its own sake.

9. Kassad
   Member
   Posted 7 years ago #
   

   Well, well ....

   I must agree that browser resizing is not a good idea.
   It will not make people happy at all if you take control of their browser.

   Though, I symphatize with your ideas I think, you took an early flight with your theme.
   It is obvious that you are enthusiastic but you had better stick with specific issues you are trying to solve.

   A theme, intended for the public, should be consistent, yours, at the present more of a playground for your ideas. You need to make some more research into them.

   So, do not take hard the critics, some are worth to consider, some are just the wheather .... :)

10. red-star
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    Ive been pretty upset when my browser jumpt to a verry narrow box. The comming thing was that when i was planning to go back to WP the browser got big again, but the site not. To manny fingermovements just to do a thing what normaly would be something to enjoy.

11. Nnyan
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    If you have to have a scrollbar thats fine but to add one in doesn't make sense (design wise) to me but thats just my op.
    I see what you were going for (I think) but IMHO its too boxy. I think the black lines seperating the boxes are too big and defined at least to me it makes it even more "boxy". I would take out some of the extraneous boxes and make your main scroll window bigger, less scrolling.

    I also had my browser resize on load.

12. joelwalsh
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    1. I really like the boxes, for one, because they are visually striking and make it easier to distinguish different sections of the navigation from each other. I also like the color scheme.

    2. OK, as for resizing the browser: yes, very very very bad. It's bad because it gives you a little scare, like your computer is about to crash or it's been infected with adware. People will close the window and hit the back button and never return. Of course your site doesn't actually make the browser crash or install spyware, but it will give people that feeling of concern that will make them just prefer to visit one of the other 6 billion web pages out there. Also I don't appreciate it that when I leave your site I still don't have my browser's scroll bar--have you thought of that? Maybe maybe you can self-justify taking away the user's scrollbar when they're on your site (maybe). But how can you say it's ok to take away apart of their browser when they're not on your site?

    3. The scroll bar in the middle: that's a frame. I know it's not the old-fashioned html frame, but it's functionally the exact same thing. Frames have gone out of style for many reasons, all having to do with the fact that they make the site less usable. Just read Jakob Nielsen's writings on the subject. Yes, the current default browser setup of scrollbar on the right side of the page in the web browser is vastly preferable to users as demonstrated in numerous usability studies (again, Google Jakob Nielsen and frames). Also, the frame prevents you from making the most out of your screen real estate by forcing the little bottom navbar into view when you would rather use that screen space for reading content. In short, it's an imposition on visitors, even if it was intended as precisely the opposite.

13. Trigger
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    Another vote against resizing a person's browser. It really hosed my Firefox in Linux. I had to restart the browser. Yeah, it makes life easy for you knowing exactly how big the window is but people really really hate it.

14. concepthue
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    yea, I may take off the browser resize. It was just experimenting. Though it's also control. Something the web is lacking. Something I can't stand.

    I'm a designer and I create. I create something I have an intended way for you to view it.

    I know not everyone is going to like or view my design. However you WILL see it how I intended.

    To a more concrete and logical argument and reason for not using it. Thanks to Trigger. Now that I understand there is a problem with it, I'm more inclined not to use it. It's not just because someone doesn't like it. Not your design buddy. Sorry.

15. moshu
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    I create something I have an intended way for you to view it.
    and
    you WILL see it how I intended.

    Unfortunately on the web that's just a nice dream. You cannot be prepared for all the possible browsers (think of text-only!) and/or resolutions, OS etc.
    We all would like to present our work as we see it but nobody can controll everybody's browser and/or computer. We all have to compromise: while doing our best to look good in as many browsers as possible, it will never be perfect in every instance.

    That's the nature of this medium.

16. joelwalsh
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    concepthue, you already have the ability to pretty much control what the user sees by making it fixed-width, as you have done; that means that a bigger window will only produce a large blank space to the right of the main page, which no one will notice. The only thing you can't control is whether or not they'll also see the footer, but there's so little of interest there anyway, what's the point of making them see it?

17. concepthue
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    "Frames have gone out of style for many reasons, all having to do with the fact that they make the site less usable. "

    I agree with your other points 100%. However this part...
    I'm sorry but that's a completely false statement. There is no one person in charge of dictating what is in style and what isn't. There are MANY MANY MANY well dessigned sites that use frames.

    I feel with the advent of CSS, it allows them to be even more advanced and handled much better. This makes them superior to old-fashioned html ones. If you want to read and practice an article some guy wrote in 1996, then go ahead. It's now 10 years later. Frames have changed.

    It is true; however, that I will be making another theme that gives more space to the viewing area for the post. In part due to some of the points brought up here and in part due to the way moo.fx script works. This initial theme was an experiment and don't think that I have neglected everyone's input here.

    At the same time I just want to point out that I'm not recognizing personal preference as law. So anyone's post that claimed something less than scientific I probably am ignoring...at least to a degree.

18. concepthue
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    @joelwash - I guess it isn't a big deal to have it extend to empty space. I just wanted it more centered. Again my future theme will be different. I'll work less with absolute positioning.

    Glad to see that someone doesn't see that as a big deal though. I was concerned it may look ugly for someone with a higher resolution.

19. concepthue
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    @moshu - I know, there's not really any standards for web. That's the sad thing. I just was excited to see that this javascript worked for IE and FF. I assume it works on all browsers, though this is the reason why I wanted to get people to see the site! It seems a user on Linux had a problem. Though I'm unsure if it's the javascript or the system it was run on. Regardless, I will be removing the javascript window resize. Now that I've had a sufficient amount of feedback and good arguments brought up.

20. pcmt
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    Actually (@joelwalsh) it's not a frame, it's a fixed dimension box with overflow styled to auto.

    @concepthue re: "there's not really any standards for web." Yes there is, but good luck with the theme.

21. concepthue
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    @pcmt - There is SUPPOSED to be. However until Microsoft and everyone else decides to acknowledge it. There "isn't." It's just an idea and a philosophy until then. Really it's just a paradigm that some choose to follow. Can't call that a standard until everyone follows it.

22. pcmt
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    "Isn't?" Ever heard of the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)?

23. concepthue
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    @pcmt - Read my post again. Yes I have heard of it. A link to it can be found at the bottom of my page. My point is in jest....you'll get it.

24. joelwalsh
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    As I stated, it's not a true html frame, but that doesn't change the fact that from the user's standpoint, it's just as bad. True, this means that the page content won't show up separately from the frame in search results, one of the worst problems with html frames, but it's still a frame from the point of view of the user.

    "I agree with your other points 100%. However this part...
    I'm sorry but that's a completely false statement. There is no one person in charge of dictating what is in style and what isn't. There are MANY MANY MANY well dessigned sites that use frames."

    By "out of style," I merely meant that there are obviously far, far fewer sites today that use frames than there were five or six years ago. It's rare to see a new site that uses frames today, compared with when Netscape first invented them, when they were used everywhere. You can probably still find a new site that uses frames, but they probably have a very good use for them other than asthetics or taste (for instance, the way about.com uses a frame when sending you off-site; it wants to keep its ads on your screen--isn't that a great use of frames??).

    And this departure from frames was based on numerous user studies, as well as in-the-field tests of website conversions, and opinion polls, all of which showed that users hated frames. Just check out Jakob Nielsen's site ( http://useit.com ) for this information.

    I wouldn't dwell on the point except that frames are so widely regarded as bad web design that it's upsetting to see a good designer unaware of their problems.

25. concepthue
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    yea I was just at that site before I had read your post.

    It is true there are less frames now, but you're thinking of the big ugly frames. Smaller frames are a VERY common thing.

    I think this guy is smart and I'm definately saving this site. HOWEVER, he lacks creative vision. He merely is a scientist. He has a PHD, and before that a degree in science. I have a degree in fine art. BIG difference.

    I feel there should be a balance between the two. He's completely one way, I'm strong on the art side, but not completely "left winged" if you will. On the other hand he IS "right winged" and will probably never know beauty, the same way most people do, in his lifetime.

    Again, the real trick is finding a balance. In terms of usability, does my layout work??? THAT's what I'm after. I'm trying to hunt down bugs and severe problems.

    Because I'll gladly sacrifice a fraction of a second more of your time for something you'll want to spend more time looking at. Rather than a completely scienced out site for usability with absolute 0 appeal. It may be quick to get the information, but the one thing they fail to factor into their research is how long someone will want to look at something ugly...sooner or later if no one wants to use it....how effective is it??

26. vkaryl
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    The look is great - very "mondrian-ish", and I like that very well.

    I detest squashed left sites. Center it, I might go back. Get rid of the inner scrollbar, I'd consider using the theme myself.

    [I absolutely refuse to get into the other "standards don't exist" silliness. As it happens however (and even though I don't ever use them any more) I personally LOVE frames - they make navigation on a site logical (to me, but then when I'M surfing I'm the only one that counts) and tidy. Unfortunately, I am a MAJOR minority on this one....]

27. concepthue
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    @vkaryl - ah.. a like minded individual :) I can't center this sadly because it's done using absolute positioning. I had a javascript that would center and resize the browser window but that caused a whole bunch of mess and problems. So it is what it is. I am designing a new theme though soon. It will be similar, but different and will address many of the issues talked about here. I may or may not use it personally, but it will be a creation for fun and so that people can use it. Just trying to contribute.

28. vkaryl
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    Well, then, you wouldn't mind if I use the box-design idea myself?

29. concepthue
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    Of course not. Part of the reason I posted this was to inspire. I was just trying to open up ideas and hopefully get some sparks to fly. I'm working on a new design too for public use, but I'm having problems with the css at the moment. I'm just gonna take a break for a day or so from what I'm doing I think.

30. petit
    Member
    Posted 7 years ago #
    

    Beutiful design!

    I'll part with moshu, Podz and others here, that extra scroll bars are annoying and don't you ever tamper with my window size.
    Certainly if you don't allow me to resize.
    I want to be surprised by design and content, not by may browser window dancing mazurka.

    I can see you listen to advice, and I really like what I see. If I think the space to the right is to wide, I can reize my window to my liking.

    When experimenting with design I'm using my big good window, but now and then I use the Firefox developer bar to resize the browser window to 800 x 600. Some still have them, and I'm always surprised at how small real estate I get. Your design width fits, give or take a few pixels, in that space.

    Good work!

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