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changing wordpress design to tables (16 posts)

  1. ongakukaku
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    i want to change my blog using tables vs div and css only
    what files do i need to change and what needs to to stayi as to not mess up the wordpress features

  2. Ming
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    Without asking why you want to change to tables (but i'm really really wondering...) this will be a pretty big task. All template files in the default themes use CSS for layout and presentation. More importantly, they don't just use divs for layout but also h1-h6, ul, and more. Trying to convert will be time consuming, you might find it easier to just start from scratch adding in template tags as you go.

    Maybe you can find a theme that's already been rebuilt with tables and modify that? But honestly, I don't think I've run across a WordPress table theme for download.

  3. ongakukaku
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    the reason why is because i have my site and forum with same consistent layout and would like to have the blog match even if i were to try to do it using div and css i wouldn't know where to begin in WP they have header, footer, main template, etc all php stuff i can see alot is through the css but i don't believe i could design it like my site and forum using only css the end goal would be to have the layout/design consistent throughout site, forum, blog, etc

  4. Ming
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    absolutely, fair enough.

  5. angsuman
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    I use tables. You can check my site - blog.taragana.com
    Most of the wordpress functions accept a prefix and suffix. There you can use table tags instead of the default list tags. Some functions do ot accept prefix and suffix. You need to replace them with your own version.
    It shouldn't take you more then 1-2 days or so to do it.

    As to why, it was just easier to achieve what I wanted using tables then div's.

    > Maybe you can find a theme that's already been rebuilt with tables and modify that?

    You can start with Bionic Jive theme which is table based. There are others too.

  6. ongakukaku
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    thanks, when i went to blog.taragana.com it didn't work is the blog up to see ?

  7. Lorelle
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    You can do whatever you want with your site, but you should know that search engines don't like tables because they aren't "friendly" and some have even been known to "score down" sites designed with tables. If you want high visibilty, learn CSS. It's MUCH easier than designing with tables, or get a good HTML editor that will not use tables to design your site to match. Tables are very hard to work with.

    Matching the two is easy, without tables, and they stay the same no matter what. You are just adding different content.

    And before you continue to commit yourself to tables, take a look at CSS Zen Garden to see HUNDREDS of the most incredibly designed sites in the world - all of them without tables. If they can do THAT, you can do that.

    Since removing tables from my web page design a couple of years ago, my site, started in 1995, has gone up the search engines like crazy. Since changing from static HTML to WordPress (dynamic site layout), my site has climbed even higher and faster in just a few months. Search engines flow through the site fast and easy. Amazing to see the difference.

    Just a word from the "been there done that" experienced folk.

    Good luck with whatever you decide.

  8. ongakukaku
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    I really hate you for showing me css zen garden he he could you have pushed the blade any further in my skull ? :))

    i suppose your right about using CSS vs tables, but you know i tried CSS / div before and it was a pain like doing surgery, getting div tags to line up as in colum right, middle colum, colum left just never seem to work, i guess because i was so use to using tables. I didn't know about the search engine relationship with tables,I guess i should do more study on css.

    By the way if one were to rely on CSS / div tags how would that related to wordpress, i'm sure it can't be as easier as switching style sheets, WP has code in there somewhere as well.

  9. Ming
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    http://codex.wordpress.org/Theme_Development

    That pages gives you an overview of themes in WP and it's a good starting point. There's lots of good theme related information on the Codex.

    There's actually no WP code in the CSS file, it's all typical webpage layout and styling. All WordPress code is in the template files (index.php, etc). You should take a look at the default template. If you feel confident duplicating the 'loop' and template tags in your own design then you should have no troubles. Codex has more info on template tags and the loop.

  10. Michael Bishop

    Posted 8 years ago #

    http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/boxes.html
    Is a great site for the basics of "columns" and CSS.

  11. infranic
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    This seems to be a quite plausible and big deal, that really does matter. As a newbie in wp i'm also actually setting up a new page with tables, - though i prefer working with CSS. WP makes it easy to build some table-templates.

    Every better Webworker knows about the marginal :) differences between browsers and os, especially if you work with borders, paddings and margins or opacity. The alignments and positioning of divs will never supercede a wellformed table-layout.

    @ Lorelle: Searchengines may have many :) aspects to score sites down, but the argument with tables is not true while your layout hasn't 10 times cascading tables. The truth is that tables are no spider chow and it may take a bit longer to be indexed.

  12. brainwidth
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    The alignments and positioning of divs will never supercede a wellformed table-layout.

    With all due respect, infranic, this is simply false. Tables were designed for data, not for page layout, and severely limit your design options. You will always be able to create more flexible and more precise designs with css than with tables. Welcome to 2005.

    You should read this article from mezzoblue on columns and grids in css, and check out some of the more sophisticated css-based sites, like subtraction.com. Try doing something like that with tables.

  13. infranic
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    @brainwidth: "Welcome to 2005" or "always be able to create more flexible and more precise designs with css" are simply honest ideals, that may be worth to be served. You're right! But the reality in vast regions on this planet is running after it, sorry (about my bad english).

    you're not knowing, that i really love working with CSS over a couple of years. therefore we have established a lamentation wall in our bureau with several systems & configurations as there are old macs, old pc's with win95..., with linux etc.

    My comment was relating to some wellknown problems:

    • not everyone knows css
    • very poor crossplatform performance for using scalable or floating layouts
    • huge testing phases = costs

    @ongakukaku: But this all is not what"ongakukaku" wanted to hear. I just can recommend to simplify the wp-template structure in a first step into more comprising files that combine header, sidebar, single... in one file. So did I; intending to add a blog to an existing page.

  14. angsuman
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    @ongakukaku
    The blog is up and running! Please try again.

  15. angsuman
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    Before designing my site with tables I actually looked at several successful sites. I noticed table is still alive and well.
    And it is simple. I am always appealed by simplicity :)

    CSS is simple if you copy and paste an existing layout. When you want to make changes to it and make it cross-brower compatible with hacks and hack-but-not-hacks, it becomes tad painful if I may say so :)

    However one thing which is appealing with CSS based layout is that you can index your contents in the proper order, the way you would like your search engines to see them.

  16. ongakukaku
    Member
    Posted 8 years ago #

    If there's one thing i have found in trying to create a no table site using css only is that unless you really know how the browsers are going to display it some items just end up messy. Div tags are a pain to work with because they do not align on page as easily as tables do.

    if i set up a table i know that it will appear as is in any browser if its the correct size but in css you have to code it properly to get it to appear right especially in IE

    CSS is far more complicated than everyone makes it out to be. Alot of sites using CSS are very simplistic designs but i haven't seen any complexed layouts using CSS perhaps because it's not feasable just yet.

    In taking a look at the site http://www.subtraction.com I see nothing complicated about this layout, it's very simple and easy to do with tables. I think perhaps you are refering to the content management that's what i notice when looking at this site not its design.

    I agree that CSS is the future of webdesign but i also agree that currently the browser issues make it a pain to do all CSS sites. Do we have 10 years to wait around till they get that figured out.

    Personally, i think alot of so called web standards are created by web geeks who for no valid reason just don't like one thing or another so they make up their own way of doing it and expect the rest of the world to follow. Web Geeks especially i believe follow HYPE more than the average person. They eat it up and buy into it. If a site says don't do that, then web geeks obey it's silly. Take using <b> or who cares use what you want don't be trendy.

    search engines hate tables ? since when does a search engine display emotion ? tell the guy who has his table only based site that is ranked on in search engine that SE hates tables i think it depends on the site and how it's set up no ?

    I'm all for following advice of the experts but too many on the net make up their own belief about why something may work with no real hard evidence. Then it becomes a standard practice and nobody knows why.

    I think i may be 100 years old before i figure it all out lol

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