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[resolved] [closed] WP3.0.1 MS on Unix/Plesk cannot run subdomain (21 posts)

  1. gazouteast
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    Before Ipstenu, Andrea_R, and mrmist jump in with knee-jerk reactions ...
    Yes, I have read what you each posted here - http://wordpress.org/support/topic/multisites-work-actual-subdomains-being-redirected?replies=19 - before you prematurely closed that thread.

    I return to what none of you were understanding - i.e. -
    To access webmail with a browser, you have to input the address as something like webmail.domain.tld - in this case (and on all servers) "webmail" is an http accessed subdomain (browser interprets it as http://webmail.domain.tld), and the default WPMS wildcard subdomains handler is hijacking calls to it and redirecting them to the WPMS 404 error page with an invitation to register a new account.

    @ mrmist - I HAVE submitted bug reports on this - several times, with detailed information including everything you an ipstenu requested, and every time, someone deletes the bug reports from trac. The WP dev community is in denial about this issue.

    @ Andrea_r - look, I don't want to end up in dispute with you over this - I admire what you and your partner do, too much, for that, but this is absolutely NOT a server side process that is banjaxed - Parallel (Plesk) and the hosts (UK's biggest cloud hosting operator) have worked constantly on this for six weeks now and cannot get it to work.

    I repeat what I requested in the closed thread -

    If someone has WPMS 3.0.1 working on UNIX (not Linux) with Plesk on Cloud Hosting, please can they post the how-to?

    If you're not on Unix AND Plesk AND Cloud hosting, it's likely your solution will not work - Cloud Hosting is very different to regular shared and VPS hosting.

    Please do not tell me to change hosts - every other webscript runs on this host, and WPMU 2.9.2 ran perfectly on them. Standalone WP 3.x runs perfectly on them. WPMS 3.x WITHOUT wildcard subdomains runs perfectly on them - but as soon as wildcard subdomains are enabled, something in the WPMS constants/functions/whatever are hijacking calls to ALL subdomains and redirecting to WP's 404 registration page (on all tested themes, with and without any plugins including caching plugins, and including on a twentyten barebones new install).

    Sorry that last paragraph sounds like ranting, but I am upset - OK? Plus, I can think of no other way to state it clearly.

    The subdomain hijacking even occurs to attempts within Plesk to go straight to a webmail-box from the Plesk mail management console, (obviously enough because Plesk puts it into an http window to login and display the mailbox panel).

    The hosts and I have tried every browser and version we can get our hands on in case it's a browser trigger somewhere, but all browsers return the same problem - I even rooted around in the boxes in the rice barn to find my copy of Internet Explorer 4 - and that had even worse issues - wouldn't even load plesk correctly (too many curvy boxes) - LOL.

    So please - I've tried EVERYTHING each of you have said or suggested, and the hosts and Plesk techs have been working on this since mid-July, and can't get it working. I've tried numerous times to file a bug report the correct way and they're always deleted within 12 hours - so please don't hide behind that instruction.

    I do understand that a small percentage of people are facing this issue, so perhaps it's time to stop censoring / silencing them, and start looking for the commonalities, in order to resolve these issues? If everyone else is happy and has working installs, then perhaps it's time to look at the edge cases?

    Gaz

  2. I HAVE submitted bug reports on this - several times, with detailed information including everything you an ipstenu requested, and every time, someone deletes the bug reports from trac. The WP dev community is in denial about this issue.

    I find it hard to believe that the devs would delete tickets unless they were duplicates. My understanding is that the devs will close a ticket if the fault is not that of WordPress and they will certainly delete duplicates, but they won't arbitrarily delete tickets.

    I'm sure the devs had a good reason to dismiss your previous bug reports, and that reason should have been stated as a comment on the ticket.

    If you link to your tickets here, that should draw some additional community attention and comments to them, which it sounds like you need to get the attention of the devs.

    The devs can't read everything posted to these forums, so complaining about it here won't do you much good.

  3. Samuel B
    moderator
    Posted 3 years ago #

    I HAVE submitted bug reports on this - several times, with detailed information including everything you an ipstenu requested, and every time, someone deletes the bug reports from trac. The WP dev community is in denial about this issue.

    Since James answered you seriously - here's my knee-jerk reaction - that is truly one of the funniest thing I've ever seen posted on these forums- I can't thank you enough for that

  4. mrmist
    Forum Janitor
    Posted 3 years ago #

    @ mrmist - I HAVE submitted bug reports on this - several times, with detailed information including everything you an ipstenu requested, and every time, someone deletes the bug reports from trac. The WP dev community is in denial about this issue.

    I've checked with one of the core devs about this and his response was that tickets are not deleted from trac.

    Your tickets have been closed because they are not WordPress bugs. This happens quite a lot, to many tickets.

    Closure does not equal deletion.

  5. Andrew Nacin
    Lead Developer
    Posted 3 years ago #

    We don't delete tickets. Only close invalid ones.

  6. Okay, try this.

    Delete WordPress but keep the wildcard domain stuff setup.

    Betcha it'll still be broken.

  7. Set up wpmu 2.9.2. Make sure it all works. Now replace all the 2.9.2 files with 3.0 ones without touching anything else.

  8. gazouteast
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    @ MacManX quote "My understanding is that the devs will close a ticket if the fault is not that of WordPress and they will certainly delete duplicates, but they won't arbitrarily delete tickets."
    My experience is more that devs will close / delete (semantics) tickets if they don't believe it is a fault of WordPress, and will continue doing so until sufficient people are pedanticly (sp?) re-reporting the same issues over and over again - hence my comment about denial - I have witnessed this phenomenon several times over the last three years.

    quote "If you link to your tickets here, that should draw some additional community attention and comments to them, which it sounds like you need to get the attention of the devs."
    Now you're just being facetious - how can I link to tickets that have been removed from the system, and which I therefore have no access to in order to obtain the links - think about what you say before you write it.

    @ Samuel B - pointless, non-assistive comment, potential to provoke argument and acrimony - go read your own forum rules.

    @ MrMist quote "Your tickets have been closed because they are not WordPress bugs. This happens quite a lot, to many tickets."
    The webmail hostname / subdomain works fully and without problems until WPMS network is enabled, then it gets treated by any browser-side call to/within the domain as a non-existing WPMS subdomain blog, and the user redirected to the WP registration and 404 page - this is happening regardless of hostname/subdomain sequencing in httpd.conf / vhosts.conf. The htaccess is exactly as created by WPMS.

    Situation - webmail works. Install WPMS, webmail is redirected as a WPMS subdomain - ergo, it's caused by activation of WPMS.
    Alternative situation - your head feels fine, I smack you round the back of it with a bit of 2x2, your head hurts - ergo, the pain is caused by the application of the 2x2.
    It's that simple.

    @ Nacin - same difference - you make them non-visible and unavailable for further comment by originating or additional users. Re: duplicates, then you need the "merge duplicates" function in trac.

    @ ipstenu - have checked with the hosting techs (had to to be sure this has been tested) - nope - full deletion of WPMS including database, on the test domain, returned normal http access to webmail. They tried that a few weeks back.

    @ Andrea - just checking - do you mean a straight FTP overwrite (or delete and rewrite) after 2.9.2 configuration, not an upgrade process? I think that may be one method we haven't tried yet - but surely the ms-blogs redirector / parser file "thingy" (for want of a better name to give to Samuel B) will demand editing of htaccess, plus the additional "obfuscation" keys in wp-config being missing, will cause a non-startable WP build? Just guessing, but will give it a go - at this stage, any suggestion is worth a try ... allow me a few days on that as I have a very heavy content creation schedule for several other sites this month, and everyone elkse this end is up to their eyes in pre-Christmas sales-season prep work for the entire sites list.

    ---- A reminder to all ---- I missed including it in the OP of this thread, it was mentioned in other threads - and this one will do your head in as badly as it has done ours -
    - If the WPMS build is done for subdomain blogs, but no wildcard setup in done server-side, then by MANUALLY creating the subdomains in DNS and pointing them to the domain root, everything works (sort of), but what a chore when a site may end up with 1000s of blogs and daily edits needed to DNS.
    - As soon as WP instructions are followed for the server setup, all the above discussed issues occur - this IMPLIES the error is server side config - I agree that is the logical conclusion, EXCEPT - identical configs work on cPanel/Apache, they do not work on Plesk/Apache - everything else in Plesk, including other scripts, continue working fine ... the prime problem is simply that normal browsing to named subhost/subdomain functions get grabbed by WPMS (e.g. webmail.domain / http://ftp.domain etc) <<- EDIT: dunno where that http:// in front of FTP is coming from, I didn't enter it, and it's not there when I edit the post - so save any sarcastic observation of it - it's not me doing it !!!
    - DNS for some reason, regardless of set settings, in the DNS manager, always returns the hosts list with the wildcard first - yeah, I know what that's implying, but in the actual resolutions, the wildcard is last. Go figure - it's got us stumped.

    yes, yes, yes - I agree the implication is an incorrect config of the vhosts sequence - but the hosts and the Plesk support people have been over and over that, rejigging it every which way, and nothing makes any difference to the situation. Even to the point of them reworking cloud-wide configuration files chasing potential resolutions - nothing has resolved it.

    I've now got three heavyweight site builds that have been on hold for six weeks due to this, plus a bunch of our own that have been shelved until this is sorted, and Lord knows how much of my time has been robbed from other projects and daily tasking in pursuit of a remedy for this. So if I seem a bit fractious, then apart from offering genuine apologies for it, I think you can understand why?

    (And before someone comments or implies something contextual about it - yes, I am already hunting for a full-time technical interface person to manage liaison between us and you - it's the "least contention" route to managing external relations with all the various open source communities whose products we implement. It will also immensely relieve pressure on my schedule.)

    Gaz

  9. Now you're just being facetious - how can I link to tickets that have been removed from the system, and which I therefore have no access to in order to obtain the links - think about what you say before you write it.

    Actually, I was thinking about what I wrote. Open a ticket, then open a topic here with a link to the ticket. Is that clear enough for you?

    In retrospective, I made a mistake rescuing this topic from the spam bin. I thought that a few weeks might have improved your mood and we could have a constructive discussion on how best to proceed with your issue without you shooting down everyone who tries to help you. I guess I was wrong.

  10. Samuel Wood (Otto)
    Tech Ninja
    Posted 3 years ago #

    I read this whole thread, and the previous one...

    The issue seems quite clear, and should be perfectly clear to anybody who knows DNS.

    Short description of the problem:
    -You have wildcard subdomains set up.
    -You have some other subdomain (like mail.example.com) also set up. Presumably this subdomain is on some different server and thus has a different IP address.
    -Going to this other subdomain sends you to WordPress instead.

    Correct? Okay, if that is the problem, then the issue lies solely in your DNS configuration.

    Before the browser ever makes it to your webserver (with WordPress on it), it has to do a DNS lookup. If your DNS is returning the IP of your wildcard instead of the IP of the defined subdomain, then the DNS is set up wrong. End of story.

    Wild card entries should be at the end of your zone info, not at the beginning. If you do a nslookup on your subdomain, are you getting the right IP address?

    That has nothing to do with WordPress. And if your host can't get this right, then your host needs training. Or a manual. Or something. Just get a new host, it's simpler.

    Here's an example of a zone db file with a wildcard. Notice how the wild card is at the end? That is intentional.
    http://www.debian-administration.org/article/Wildcard_hosting_with_Apache_and_Bind

    Long story short: Yes, WordPress will handle any requests sent to it in multi-site mode. But the request should never even reach WordPress unless your DNS tells it to go there. This is a problem outside the scope of WordPress entirely. Straight DNS (and possibly Apache VHOST, if you have both domains on the same server) issue.

    Side note: This is yet another reason I never let my hosting services have my DNS. They have no idea what they're doing. Use the DNS provided by your Domain Registrar instead, or setup a zoneinfo.com account, or something. Control your own DNS. You will be happier in the long run.

  11. gazouteast
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    Otto - thanks for the input - and that's exactly the premise and logic I have worked on throughout - it also what I have constantly communicated to the hosts, and they assure me they "get it".

    I don't want to broadcast the IP address etc in a public forum, but I'm quite happy to PM the entire DNS zone record to someone from here whose alias is well known so they can double-check that things are as they should be from a WP perspective - I can send both the old A record + IP based zone, and the current CNAME-domain.tld version.

    Like I said - I'm at the end of the line on this. I am right on the cusp of saying "sod WP 3" and rolling the multi-sites backwards to 2.9.2 and forking maintenance and development from there.

    Sorry, but this last six weeks has been hell on earth due to this topic.

  12. mrmist
    Forum Janitor
    Posted 3 years ago #

    Frankly gazouteast you don't do yourself any favours with your attitude around here and on trac.

    If you make personal comments and allude to violence for no particular reason, it tends to make folk feel less inclined to help out.

    To address your comment to nacin, deletion of a ticket and closure of a ticket on trac (for whatever reason) are not the same thing. All closed tickets are still available for comment and, indeed, should the need arise, available to be re-opened. (Not that I'd suggest simply re-opening a closed ticket without further evidence, because that would simply lead to ticket status ping-pong.)

    To put this simply, if you have an existing sub-domain set up correctly in DNS, then there is no way that a correctly configured server would allow that domain to be intercepted by anything WordPress, because the requests simply wouldn't end up at WordPress. (As Otto says in his post above mine.)

    It suggests that something is wrong, either with the DNS config, or (if the wildcard and webmail end up at the same IP) the way that the Apache virtual hosts are being directed (check for any apache error logs about duplicate hosts.)

  13. gazouteast
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    Apache error logs - duplicate hosts - will do - I have to shoot to a client site for a couple of hours - that check is top of the agenda when I get back - thanks

  14. Samuel Wood (Otto)
    Tech Ninja
    Posted 3 years ago #

    Email me with your setup and such. I'll take a look, see if anything is obvious to me.

    otto@ottodestruct.com

    However, be assured: This is not a WordPress issue. It can't be. WP does not do any special magic with DNS or VHOSTs. If you're getting sent to the wrong place, then that happens before WP ever loads in the first place. No amount of changes to WP would ever cause the problem you're describing. It's just not possible. Web servers don't work that way.

  15. gazouteast
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    Otto - many thanks - you got mail

    Have checked the error logs - there are zero errors since 31 July (when the More Privacy Options plugin was added to keep out search bots and splog registrations while configuring - yes the default "no search engines" and "no registrations" were enabled, but Google and Yandex were ignoring and getting past them (confirmed by access logs), and so did half a dozen sploggers.

    Re the many comments about the wildcard entry must be last in VHOSTS - yes, I KNOW that - I have both 2.9. and 3.0.1 set up in MU/MS mode on the local LAN server under WAMP - I had that particular topic drilled pneumatically into my skull a long time back. I just hope I have hammered it enough in to the hosting techs head that his comments about it having been done, are genuine. (I don't have access to httpd.conf or vhosts.conf but have asked for copies of them as they stand today).

    Now re: Otto's last post above, I am wondering if there's mileage in putting redirect exclusions in the htaccess file, such that the named subhosts are not redirected to ms-files.php after an http request in the browser names them - - - how else can you browse to the login for http://webmail.domain.com ??? think about this please - - - this is a WEB PAGE in the WPMS controlled domain zone, yes, it SHOULD be above the wildcard in the VHOSTS list, but just in case it does not get picked up before hitting the wildcard ..... see my drift? Belt and braces principle.

    Gaz

  16. @ ipstenu - have checked with the hosting techs (had to to be sure this has been tested) - nope - full deletion of WPMS including database, on the test domain, returned normal http access to webmail. They tried that a few weeks back.

    $20 says when your host uninstalled WP, they undid the wildcard entry too. Leave that up, but remove WordPress, is what I meant. You'd have to get explicit details on what they did. Which is why I love having a VPS, man. I make the edits myself, none of this back and forth BS.

  17. @ Andrea - just checking - do you mean a straight FTP overwrite (or delete and rewrite) after 2.9.2 configuration, not an upgrade process? I think that may be one method we haven't tried yet - but surely the ms-blogs redirector / parser file "thingy" (for want of a better name to give to Samuel B) will demand editing of htaccess, plus the additional "obfuscation" keys in wp-config being missing, will cause a non-startable WP build?

    Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Leave the htaccess, the wp-config file and the wp-content.

    this is know as a *manual upgrade*.

    And seriously, if this is the only thing you haven't tried I am gobsmacked, as this is a common procedure.

    But like Otto said, none of these touch any of the wildcard settings on the host. They *can't*.

  18. gazouteast
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    @ Andrea - Ah OK - manual upgrade (old pre WP 2.5 route), yes did that way back at the start when the automatic upgrade failed (or appeared to).

    @ ipstenu - I hear what you're saying about VPS control, but as this service is for sites that MUST be on UK hosts for various reasons - no way I'm going to pay 75 UK Pounds a month for 10 GB of disk space when the deal I get from the Cloud hosts is EVERYTHING truly unlimited for a fraction of that - I can even resell unlimited accounts from within this one if I want to, though I've not had a client request (or need) that yet. Unlike most UK hosts and their laughable 10 to 20 GB bandwidth a month, this is completely unmetered, so is emails per hour.

    Even when looking at US hosting $50 a month for 30GB disk becomes extremely expensive alongside this service. Besides which, we don't normally build small sites - the average ecommerce store we do takes 20GB disk by launch date, the average WP-centred site is 10GB when built. As for our central adserver, we couldn't even load the banners folder into 30GB let alone the script and database.

    VPS's are fine for hosting multiple small and compact sites, or for a single moderate size site, but for multiple hosting they're not feasible with our portfolio, which includes a lot of multi-language builds, therefore larger than normal databases, and admin teams rather than single administrators, therefore higher email volumes that single owner sites.

    I'm hoping after this year's finished to have our own local datacentre and a couple of co-lo servers (one UK and one US) then disk space and most other stuff becomes limitless - using VPNs we can hold redundant data, backups, mail servers and so forth at this end, and have the scripts, current data and images etc front end at the forward servers in the West. Finding the right home for them is a main job during the winter.

    Gaz

  19. gazouteast
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    Rats - forgot to say - I'll try what you say ipstenu - but I'll simple move the whole install to a different folder so I can pull it back afterwards - it'd be the same as deleting and reinstalling.

    Won't be tonight though - 9:30pm here already and a load of regular ecommerce stuff to clear before knocking off for the day.

  20. gazouteast
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #

    Hi everyone (said timidly with running shoes on).

    Well, in the end the issue went round in ever decreasing circles until it was impossible to know what was happening. Finally the hosting company gave me (free gratis) a VPS to "sort it out myself".

    Guess what? I did just that.

    OK it took me a fairly intense 4 days of researching everything, but I did finally find the solution, and guess where the blame lies?

    I'll eat humble pie and admit it's not with WordPress.

    I'll say that again - it's not WordPress, and I've already blogged to that effect.

    However, I have to defend the hosting service techs and state that they couldn't find the issue because they were too dependent on Plesk and AtomiCorp for fine-grain guidance. It was only when I went in ready to blame anyone and anything, and disbelieving anything that sounded remotely like backside covering, that we were able to get to the bottom of it.

    The blame lies fairly and squarely with Parallels and their Plesk Panel product. I've spent a lot of time in THEIR forums this last four days, and drilling and grilling, and scouring their knowledge base.

    (Props #1) Something Andrea posted in another thread a while back kept niggling me - why were so many people specifically having problems with Plesk 9.3 and not other versions?

    Well, it seems it's not so much about the version number, but the timing of 9.3 becoming the mainstream Plesk version, and the sudden elevation of WPMU into mainstream (followed by WP 3.x) at around a similar date.

    I found a bug, which Plesk originally identified in October 2009 but didn't realise the significance of, and hence issued no patch. They just posted an obscure "workaround" in a very long forum thread of workarounds.

    But that one workaround on it's own, didn't fix the problem, because there was a long-standing knowledge-base article for configuring a (one) named subdomain to which all wildcard subdomain names were then applied in vhosts.conf - this was the other half of the Plesk standard instructions, and it's just plain wrong for WordPress.

    To cut it all short, Plesk got their instructions right for completely the wrong scenario and usage, and tried to force that through for implementation with WP-MS virtual wildcard subdomains. Plesk's solution is for wildcard subdomains with an on-disk presence (file set & script) - as we have all been agreed here for a long time - that duck ain't gonna fly with WordPress because WordPress subdomains are virtual in the database.

    The hosts' techs DID "get" this, and had not used the Plesk solution, but had gone for the Apache-standard WordPress method, however, they were missing the mess that Plesk issued as standard architecture up in /etc/httpd/conf.d/

    Anyway, I've blogged the problem with Plesk's default architecturing and the solution to get WordPress running here -
    How to use WordPress Wildcard Subdomains on Plesk 9.x Hosting
    (it's a new site so not fully developed or populated yet - this was a good opening article for it).

    If you read the article in full, you'll spot the two major problems within Plesk's default architecture, standing instructions, and workarounds (I think I highlighted them clearly enough) - basically, they screwed up the build of the 9.x architecture, and then compounded it with inappropriate standard configuration documentation for wildcard subdomains.

    And they did this just as WordPress MU (then MS) became highly popular, thus the misleading focus on Plesk 9.3, when in fact it applies to the whole 9.x series.

    Once I'd spotted the twin problems sitting at opposite ends of the server folder structures, it took me less than 5 minutes to correct them, and prove the solution.

    (Props #2) No way this could have been achieved without being given that VPS to play with - full marks to my hosts for doing it - our own in-house systems here don't use Plesk, and using a shared hosting account wouldn't give me the access I needed - (Props #3) Ipstenu was right on that score.

    Props #4 to Otto for the email correspondence a month back - his comments made me drill into the way Plesk handles webmail services, which proved to be 50% of the issue (though the solo IP question misled me for a while).

    Apologies for the bad behaviour. This one was an absolute S-H-1-T to nail - I've lost almost 6 months of development time over this ... and you know what? No-one ever did send me instructions for a working WPMU or WPMS on Plesk - makes me think I'm the only person who's achieved it. ;)

    This topic can now be closed as resolved.

    Gaz

  21. Thank you.

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