WordPress.org

1. PaulRitter
   Member
   Posted 6 years ago #

   Hi, I've got a site that a lot of people are commenting on, and I want to be able to send out like a newsletter type of thing to them all. I've got a subscriber plugin installed, but the thing is that they have to subscribe in order to get it, and they usually don't because I don't think they know what that feature is.

   Anyways, I was wondering if there's a plugin or something that will let me retreive ALL email addresses that not only registered users have, but also that commentors have, so that I can copy and paste it into an email and send it out like that.

   If there's anyway, please help, thanks! :D

2. moshu
   Member
   Posted 6 years ago #

   I don't think the WP forum should support your intentions of spamming.

3. Haecceity
   Member
   Posted 6 years ago #

   What you're proposing is a fast-track method for getting your website shut down. It wouldn't take many of your "subscribers" to complain to your webhost to get the plug pulled. Plus, it's just a bad thing to do.

4. Dgold
   Member
   Posted 6 years ago #

   It is good practice and expected to let people opt-in to a regular newsletter (and provide an unsubscribe option). However I see nothing wrong with emailing someone who commented on your blog.

   If someone doesn't want to get an email from a site-op, they shouldn't type their email address on your Comments/Registration. The site-op OWNS and operates the site. The commenters voluntarily submitted their email address. The blogger has every right to email someone who has posted a comment on the blogger's own site and voluntarily entered their email address.

   It would be spam if I could go on someone else's blog and harvest the hidden email addresses. Which I cannot do (thank goodness, cuz I don't want spam just like you don't).

   To answer the question (since this forum is supposed to be about Solutions, not about the utopian ethics of blogging)... You can use a simple plugin that has been posted here by Kafkaesqui to gather the email addresses of all your registered users. However it does not necessarily gather the email addresses of people who have posted a comment. But it does, IF your site has the option set where only registered users can post a comment. In that case, getting the emails of all your registered users is the same as getting the emails of everyone who has commented. Find it here:
   http://wordpress.org/support/topic/41913

   It is perfectly ethical for you to email your registered users. It is not a bad thing to do, whatsoever.

   If a commenter doesn't want to get email back, they can use their trash email (like a free Gmail), the same thing you'd do when entering an email on Amazon or Ebay or online contests.

   You might get into trouble with your ISP for spamming if the content of your email replies is spam/advertising, harrassment, or too frequent. I assume that you want to email your commenters about the topics on your blog on which they commented. Good luck in your quest.

5. moshu
   Member
   Posted 6 years ago #

   Dgold: The commenters voluntarily submitted their email address.

   That's BS, sorry.
   Almost every blog is set up that you have to enter the email in order to be able to comment. Not to register - just to post a comment. Which is fine, just don't send me un-requested newsletters!
   Registering is different: that's why I never comment on a blog that asks for registering.
   But just posting a comment on your blog I did NOT give you the permission to spam me.

6. whooami
   Member
   Posted 6 years ago #

   I have to agree with moshu on this -- and while I agree that the forums here are primarily for support -- I also do not think that the current "fad" of bashing folks who pipe in with questions of "blog ethics" is kosher.

   Need a for instance? Fine.

   Wonder how many of you would admonish someone for expressing concerns over someone who came her asking for a way to create a splog with wordpress -- that would BE, after all, a support request, would it not

   Ideally, this community, IF you choose to call it that, ought to be encouraging blog usage thats in keeping with Internet etiquette, or whatever you want to call it, as well as providing support.

   legitimate questions regarding the ethics of this, that, or the other as it relates to wordpress OUGHT to be open to debate here -- there is NO better place.

   finishing up -- I dont give anyone my email address in order to recieve unsolicited email, and if you, the OP, intend to mass email those who comment, you might want to LET THEM KNOW before hand that you intend to do so.

   Of course, I also wouldnt comment on a teenagers blog unless it happened it happened to be Bill Gate's kid or something.

7. Dgold
   Member
   Posted 6 years ago #

   When I say "voluntarily submit your email address" I meant when you type your email address and send it to another's domain. I understand that we do so with the ethical expectation that you will not be subscribed to a mailing list. However surely you are open to a reply, else why initiate a dialog with that blog?

   I think it's the word "newsletter" that is setting everyone off. Subscribing commenters to a newsletter would be over the line! I agree a blogger shouldn't put commenters on a mailing list. But it wouldn't be logical to argue that it's okay for someone to post comments on a blog (blogger's bandwidth/domain/site design -- commenter's words, freely posted)... and yet not okay for the blogger to send a private reply over email to the address they provided. That rule makes no sense, isn't in the GPL or the Codex, and inhibits free speech and dialog which blogging is actually all about.

   Spam's bad... replying to your site-users isn't necessarily spam.

8. whooami
   Member
   Posted 6 years ago #

   dgold,

   for starters, let me say that I do not believe that the original intent in this thread was to spam (in its most sinister form) anyone.

   That said, I disagree with your philosophy wholeheartedly.

   Working from the backend of your reply.. You said :

   "That rule makes no sense, isn't in the GPL or the Codex,..."

   What on earth do you think the GPL or the codex have to do with any of this?? No-one has said anything about either of them.

   Second, its not a rule.

   It's called a courtesy. And its the same as the courtesy of using a real email adress when you do comment.

   ---

   One doesnt submit an email address in order to carry on the dialog -- they submit the comment.

   See the logic?

   Open to a reply? Sure, but Im guessing most people would rather have that reply come via the method they initiated -- the comment, and henceforth, another comment would seem to be in order, NOT an email, much less a MASS email.

   Lastly, and most importantly, there's a little something called informed consent. While there is no real expectation of privacy on the I'net, it's prudent to let people know in advance that you intend to "use" their email for something -- in this case, a personal reply, mass or not. And arguably, a mass email isn't really personal, is it?

   There are always going to be exceptions to those standard courtesys, that, btw, are less and less in tact on todays net. I myself, sent 2 email replies to commenters on my own blog. One at a time, and I recived no complaints from either party, and the context of the comment, and the reply demanded something more personal.

   Note to self, I will never comment on your site. I do not mean that disrespectively, rather that it's better to know where people stand. Keeps everyone happy in the end.
   It's that informed consent thing again.

9. Dgold
   Member
   Posted 6 years ago #

   What the GPL & Codex has to do with this is: they establish and advise what you can and cannot do with WordPress. One thing you CAN do is reply to comments. This thread suggests an arbitrary limitation on WordPress, which appears no where in any associated documentation. The idea that a blogger cannot or should not reply to comments is a first-time invention of this peculiar thread.

   Don't spam = long-established rule of ethics.
   Don't reply to commenters = I have never heard this idea before.

   whooami Note to self, I will never comment on your site.
   Thank you. It is my blog, to accept/reject/reply to comments as I please. I don't believe Commenters have a special implied right on my blog, just the ordinary rights everyone on the internet has (to be free from harrassment, privacy maintained, etc.). I have never been accused of spamming by any of my readers when I replied to them or sent them notifications of events (such as an upcoming webcast) happening on my blog. I certainly don't want any comments on my blogs from someone who is averse to ongoing dialog. To me, topical postings are a two-way street, at the very heart & point of blogging.

   For example, if I release a plugin on my blog, Commenters may post asking a support question -- it is my option whether to post an answer as a follow-up public comment, or to reply to the question by email. If it is an answer that would help others, I would probably post a Comment on my site. If it is an answer that is specific and personal to the asker, then I would probably send an email. Thousands of WordPress bloggers follow this practice.

   Good discussion, anyway. Surprised I am the only advocate showing up here for freedom of speech, so far. I am sorry if my reply is upsetting to anyone's notion of WordPress, I assure you I am not on a mission to facilitate spam (I hate spam as much as you, and none of my blogs are commercial ventures or selling anything in any way). I think that the ideas in this thread are seeking to put a limitation on WordPress that was never intended or established in any prior documentation.

   I'm curious what others such as Matt, David, Kaf, and other bloggers would think about this, in consideration of the entire thread & purposes of WordPress (which, to me, the purpose is to increase the amount of speech and dialog -- the free exchange of ideas -- online).

10. moshu
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    When no other argument is left - then we usually make apeal to "free speach".

    Dgold, please do not twist (and mix) things.
    The OP clearly stated his spamming intentions:
    something that will let me retreive ALL email addresses that not only registered users have, but also that commentors have, so that I can copy and paste it into an email and send it out like that

    That's not "free speech" - that's 100% pure spam.

    Replying to comments in an email, exactly as you described: because it's a specific request - that's a totally different issue, we all have done that; I just don't understand how is this related to the original spamming intention.
    Having a dialog with a commenter, be it on the blog or in a private email exchange - that's a great thing! Nobody said anything against that.

    Getting a newsletter I did NOT subscribed to - that's spam. And you can write page long theories about free speech... it is still spam.
    Invoking GPL, Codex (or whatever "constitution") will not change the fact: there is meaningful communication between a blog owner and the visitors - and there is spam. Don't try to defent the latter by talking about the previous one.

    Why is it so difficult for you to make the distinction?

11. Dgold
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    I said throughout all my posts here that subscribing commenters to a newsletter involuntarily is spam and is unethical.

    However there can be a legitimate, non-spam reason to email your commenters, such as announcing an event on your blog which is related to the topics that were commented on. That's not spam.

    There's no need to be aggressive or accusatory in the discussion of theory, ethics, and applications of our blogging tools. It's a support forum. I can say what I think, and respect that others may have a different view.

    It really sucks how this forum is turning into "you can't/shouldn't do that" in response to so many support questions. WordPress is a tool. People come here to get support on how to accomplish a task, not whether you agree with their content.

12. whooami
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    "It really sucks how this forum is turning into "you can't/shouldn't do that" in response to so many support questions. WordPress is a tool. People come here to get support on how to accomplish a task, not whether you agree with their content."

    Gosh, yes. How dare anyone actually voice an opinion? Is that what you are saying?

    You seem clearly OK with your own opinion here.. but want to say it sucks that someone else might have a dissenting one..

    hmmm...

    Though Podz may shoot me for saying this, I believe there is no better place for other wordpress users to voice opinions regarding the usage of this software. ESPECIALLY when the usage is somehow intrusive, or otherwise suspect in nature.

    Am I going to say something if someone asks how to make their site look like Tripods? No.

    DO I have plenty to say if they want to create a splog, for instance. You bet I do.

    For the record, NO-ONE said he couldnt do anything.

    And as far the GPL and/or the codex, they dont address any specific usage issues. Again, its a COURTESY -- its called letting people KNOW what you are going to do with their email.

    Thats a VERY simple concept.

13. Dgold
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    I am fine with the substantive content of any opinions in this thread, however the tone is condescending in a way that is bizarre for a support forum. I suppose when you can't answer the points of the debate, then shouting and put-downs is the easy way out.

    Since this thread has turned to dust, the OP hasn't returned, and I posted a link above that mostly solves the issue -- case closed. It's been real.

14. whooami
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Fair enough.

    I do have to reply to something that you suggested much earlier in the thread...

    "If a commenter doesn't want to get email back, they can use their trash email (like a free Gmail), the same thing you'd do when entering an email on Amazon or Ebay or online contests."

    Fwiw, I dont use a throw-away email when I comment. I believe that defeats the purpose of using an email at all. If you're (generally speaking) going to suggest the above, then why not suggest using any ole' email, even one thats not yours.. etc..
    There's little difference, in my opinion.

    Furthermore, I certainly hope that commenting to a blog doesnt end up having the same result as an online contest (spam spam and more spam) -- if that ever becomes the case, my points here have been proven. Just the comparison is funny to me.

    As for ebay, I have never recieved spam from them. Never. Ever.

    best wishes.

15. mylagoon
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Not that I want to add fuel to the fire, or have any use for such a function like what the OP wants, but it could have some legitimate and good uses (as long as it isn't abused).

    Say for instance that somehow, someone expolited a vulnerability in WP that allowed them to harvest all the email addresses of those who had commented, potentially signing them up for hundreds of spam messages.

    If the blog owner was aware that their site had essentially been hacked, they could send a courtesy warning and apology message to everyone who had commented and alert them to the breach of their privacy.

    That's one example, but there's probably more uses.

    Sorry to play the devils advocate moshu.

16. niziol
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Definition of Spam: Unsolicited e-mail, often of a commercial nature, sent indiscriminately to multiple mailing lists, individuals, or newsgroups; junk e-mail.

    Dgold: "One thing you CAN do is reply to comments."

    You certainly can respond to comments, by posting a comment relating to the comment that you wish to reply to. There is no need nor does a site operator have any legal or moral authority to misappropriate an e-mail (that was submitted in good-faith for a singular purpose) for any other purpose than for which it was explicitly submitted for - and in the case of comments, that is to act a check to reduce spam. There is no way anyone, not even someone at the very lowest end of the human intelligence scale, would think its acceptable to turn this anti-spam measure into spam.

    All of these little references you make to free-speech are in fact BS - I am the first one who would argue this to death (even if I completely dis-agreed with the subject matter) in favour of free expression if this where the case - but this has nothing to do with free-speech, this has to do with the violation of a persons private information, which they have granted the website to make use of for one specific purpose, nothing more. If someone wants to receive a newsletter or anything of that sort, then they would subscribe to it clearly and freely.

    If you think that the GPL and/or the Codex specify anywhere that it is a requirement to allow, to precipitate or to be complacent in enabling spam, than you need some serious help. Spam is a nuisance to everyone, it consumes resources and time and it erodes any trust people may have (or have had) in the internet and in blogging. If there is any de-facto responsibility that any of us or WordPress has, it is to fight spam, not to enable it – hence why any posted e-mail address on this forum are always moderated.

    Cheers,
    Michael.

17. Dgold
    Member
    Posted 6 years ago #

    Michael, you misunderstood my posts. I'm against spam. I support your crusade against spam. My mind is a poodle compared to yours.

    Legitimate emails between a blogger and a commenter are not spam, in my unpopular opinion. Apparently I touched a nerve. Legitimate emails -- to me -- are not unsolicited, not commercial, not a newsletter - just an exchange of ideas between a blogger and a blog's readers, as with a support email, an event that interests the readers, a response to a comment, etc.

    Perhaps I see this differently than some because the only commenters on my blogs are Registered users, and none of them (the few dozen that there are) have ever complained about getting email from me.

18. pizdin_dim
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    "Almost every blog is set up that you have to enter the email in order to be able to comment. Not to register - just to post a comment. Which is fine, just don't send me un-requested newsletters!"

    The WP bloggin platform (like most) asks for an email address. Why do you suppose the developers chose to record that piece of information in the database in the first place? To put it another way:

    Q: Why would you design a piece of software that prompts for your email address, just so you can comment?
    A: Because the email address is useful information to the website operator, that's why.

    Everyone who places comments on a blog is aware of that, surely?

    Those who don't trust the website operator will then choose to enter a bogus or (munged) email address, but the whole purpose of email addresses for comments is surely for the website operator to contact the commenter and the commenter knows that. Provided the website operator doesn't give out those email addresses to a third party they are fully entitled to contact all commenters, even if they do it as a "mass mailing". The only issue I would have is if that email was spam.

19. vkaryl
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    Hmmm. I personally consider it simply another way of verifying a "real person" as opposed to a 'bot. But I guess that's just me....

    I would NEVER harvest emails from the many blogs I and my clients run to mass mail. It's just not done by upfront, class sites.

20. pizdin_dim
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    I too don't believe in "harvesting" the email addresses. But I guess we disagree on the purpose of the email address field. You see it as a verification mechanism and I see it as something "real" (for the lack of a better word). If it's purpose was to differentiate between bots and humans, then it should be called something like "verification token" instead.

    I understand your point though: spam has become such a pain for most of us that some of us now plainly mistrust what website operators might possibly do with our email addresses.

    Have we gotten to the point where WP (and other blogging platforms) should be changed to NOT prompt for an email address any longer but instead prompt for something like a "verification token" instead? Personally, I don't think so but I'm just wandering how many people are thinking the same thing.

21. thugparlay
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    I agree that it seems the op intent is to spam the e-mails he will get from his request because he is asking for all of the e-mails commented on the website, not just registered users.

    If it was to registered users only, I'd side with Dgold - as it could be a newsletter of sorts (but the op should find a way to do the subscribe option first).

22. vkaryl
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    I've been wondering the same thing, pizdin_dim - but I'm not sure what such a token might encompass as opposed to using an email addy (yes, there is "captcha" - but I understand it's far from being 'bot unusable any more).

    It's just become painful to deal with all the spam.... I think that's why this sort of post gets so much aggravated response.

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