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[resolved] [closed] 3.6 custom menu setup TABS = bad idea (18 posts)

  1. klynam
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    What's with the new "tabs" for the custom Menu system?!?!? The custom menu assignment was perfectly fine where it was before - at the top left of the custom menu creation screen! Now we have to go through a complete page reload to switch change custom menu assignments, and another page reload to get back to the custom menu setup??? Come on guys (and gals) don't waste time changing things that are working perfectly well...!!!

  2. Nicole Hough
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I also find the tab layout more cumbersome. AND I am desperately trying to figure out how to add a custom link as a menu item!!!! Where did that feature go????

    I just upgraded today and happen to need to add a custom menu item today to link to the project management software I am running on a subdomain. Any help appreciated thank you!

  3. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Where did that feature go????

    Try looking under Links.

  4. robbyaz
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I agree that we seem to be moving to more and more steps. First image handling got a lot more complicated with the insertion and featured selection becoming two separate steps. Instead of Show, we now have edit which opens in a new tab?

    Now this with menus. They call it simpler, but it's not at all... I'd like to know who's leading on these bad decisions.

  5. manxrunner
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I agree with the above, can't centre, can't do bold headings, my results are all squashed, can't paste from Word. Nightmare.

  6. klynam
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Definition of "progress"...

    "Replacing what works perfectly fine, with what seemed like a good idea at the time."

    Personally, professionally, I'd MUCH rather see progress on stability and security than truly pointless changes to the interface. Those of us who work with WP everyday for our livelihood get into a groove with particular workflows that WORK and we have a hard enough time making a living without having to relearn our core system every few releases.

    If WP developers want to REALLY improve the application's admin interface, then they could start like this: (a) develop a new control panel that let's us customize our own visual preferences (fonts, sizes, colors, margins/padding, line spacing, cell spacing, widths, heights, etc.) for the actual WP admin interface; and (b) provide a way to easily export those settings so we can apply the SAME settings to other WP sites that we manage.

    I see theme developers do stuff like this all the time - and I use those capabilities heavily. Why can't WP do something similar?

    WP - please focus on giving your USERS more control and stop replacing what works with what seems like a good idea...PLEASE !!!!

  7. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 1 year ago #

    I'd MUCH rather see progress on stability and security than truly pointless changes to the interface.

    You may feel that the interface changes were pointless. Many others did (and do) not agree. If you wish to influence the direction of future updates, I suggest you start by becoming involved in WordPress core development.

  8. klynam
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Clearly SOMEONE thought they were valid Emsi because they are definitely in the release. And I can see "why" they were done, my point is these changes really did nothing to improve usability or expand capabilities. They simply changed things and ended up causing more work (more clicks, more page loads, etc.) for the WP admin user.

    I'm not a developer, I'm a user and designer and the only ones with voices in the WP core development are programmers. Having worked with developers regularly on many projects, I've learned to recognize "developer centric" changes when I see them. And the fact is there have been more and more of "those" types of changes creeping into WP with the latest releases. I'm thinking specifically of "editing" imported media items which now causes a new browser tab to open (unnecessary page loads.) Now we have new 'tabs' for menu items that also cause additional screen redraws. But there has been NO real justification as to why these changes were necessary, or explanation as to how they are beneficial to the end user.

    From my seat, those are developer centric changes that someone felt was a "good idea" but I'm also guessing whoever approved and programmed those changes probably isn't running multiple client WP sites on multiple off-site shared server hosting environments like 99% of the rest of us do. If they did, they would trash of all those needless screen redraw "updates" ASAP (among other things!!!)

    As for involvement, and since I'm NOT a developer, I was under the impression that's what this forum was for...???

  9. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 1 year ago #

    my point is these changes really did nothing to improve usability or expand capabilities

    Oh - in some instances they greatly increased usability/accessibility for those whoo not use a mouse or a graphical browser!

    These are developer centric changes that someone felt was a "good idea"

    No - these are user-centred changes that usability and accessibility experts decided was a good idea.

  10. klynam
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Since you're a mod, I have to be careful with MY replies to avoid getting banned, or having my threads closed or removed entirely.

    I use WP every single day for my livelihood and from MY chair and MY computer screens, these changes did absolutely nothing positive and only served to drag down (my) efficiency. I already fight with several of my client site hosting companies that occasionally block my local IP when I'm working on back-end changes or site customizations because the WP system already makes SO many server calls. So the LAST thing I need is more page loads and screen redraws when I'm working on my client sites, not to mention the additional time required FOR those screen draws and page loads. Yes they are "little" but they add up over the course of hours, days, and weeks!

    However, I also recognize YOU are on the same page as the WP developers and therefore have very good reasons for taking that position...

    Please help me understand what percentage of users are actually administering WP sites without a mouse or graphical browser...???

    Please help me understand how opening additional browser tabs and creating additional screen redraws are "good ideas" to improve usability and accessibility - when both (of the particular functions discussed above) were never needed before...???

    I don't mind being wrong, it happens all the time. So I'd be most appreciative for you to direct me to viewable discussion or documentation that validates either of the two claim you made above.

    Thank you...

  11. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Since you're a mod, I have to be careful with MY replies to avoid getting banned, or having my threads closed or removed entirely.

    Whoah there, cowboy! That was more than a little uncalled for. There hasn't been the slightest hint of censoring in this topic.

    I use WP every single day for my livelihood and from MY chair and MY computer screens

    As do I.

    these changes did absolutely nothing positive

    Perhaps not - for you. For others, they made whole areas of the interface actually usable. You are not the only WordPress user and the needs of all users have to be balanced. You know what they say... you can please some of the people some of the time...

    Just out of curiosity, are any of the admin screens now completely inaccessible to you??

    I also recognize YOU are on the same page as the WP developers

    Not always, no. Have you ever seen some of the "stronger" discussions on Trac? I'm actually (in a small way) one of the people who raises issues with the current versions of WordPress. But what I do realise (from long experience in web development) is that there is no way that you can please everyone in a application with a user base of over 18 million. So you try to strike a reasonable balance. Again, the moot point would be based on your answer to my question above.

    Please help me understand how opening additional browser tabs and creating additional screen redraws are "good ideas" to improve usability and accessibility

    What is your experience with web accessibility? Have you ever used a screen reader? Or voice recognition software? Or tried to navigate using only a TAB and an ENTER key? Tens (hundreds?) of thousands of WordPress users do every day. Their needs deserve to be met too.

    I reiterate - are any of the new admin areas now completely inaccessible or unusable for you? Some of the previous screens were for other users.

  12. manxrunner
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Hi
    I have completely got it all wrong it was me who changed the screen, when i updated I thought they had changed it. So sorry for wasting everyone time. very happy WordPresser.

  13. klynam
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Despite my best efforts at professionalism, I've been the recipient of "mod abuse" more than once. Them's the facts...

    You bring up some good points that I will take time to review and consider.

    As for meeting the special needs of others - I completely agree and I'm on board 10000%. However, the best UI/UX do NOT accomplish that through unilateral changes that force all users into a "one size fits all" workflow funnel that suits a minority of users. Special enabling features/functions should be AVAILABLE for those who DO need them, and optional for those who do not - not change the core workflow for all users. At a broader level, this is simply good interface design protocol, but yes it does take more work - which of course is why it seldom happens as it really should.

    Thanks for staying with the discussion...

  14. esmi
    Forum Moderator
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Despite my best efforts at professionalism, I've been the recipient of "mod abuse" more than once. Them's the facts...

    I'm sorry to hear that. I went back through your entire 4 year posting history but I could not find any evidence of "mod abuse". All I could find is a few "bumps" that were deleted a couple of years ago.

    Special enabling features/functions should be AVAILABLE for those who DO need them

    That kind of approach to web accessibility went out of fashion about 10 years ago for all kinds of reasons. Not least of which is that it discriminates against those with disabilities.

    Any content management system is going to change over time and WordPress has been going for 10 years. Some of the changes you will like. Some you won't. But all of them are made with the best interests of all users at heart and never on the whim of a couple of developers.

  15. Nicole Hough
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Try looking under Links.

    Ah ha. Thank you @esmi

  16. lonchbox
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    Now Custom menu = Links ?... I had to search in the forum to find where it was this featured gone and was jsut a name change?. I think more easy to understand could be Custom Links, donĀ“t you think?

    Maybe the confusion is for old users, where we use to had "Links section", now just as a plugin, but for a new users justs "Links" is also confusing :P

  17. Matthew Taylor
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    @klynam

    I'm not a developer, I'm a user and designer and the only ones with voices in the WP core development are programmers.

    I'm a designer.. There are lots of places where developers are working on these issues and actively seek outside opinions from non-programmers.

    Since you're a mod, I have to be careful with MY replies to avoid getting banned, or having my threads closed or removed entirely.

    It's hard to have a good productive discussion about the issues with you taking personal offense and proclaiming what a victim you are. You are claiming there are walls where there are none.
    I've seem Esmi around quite a bit. Always very helpful. And patient. Oh my.. so very patient. As is evident in this thread.

    At a broader level, this is simply good interface design protocol, but yes it does take more work - which of course is why it seldom happens as it really should.

    Good interface design is what the developers were working on. I disagree with some of their changes.. but they had design parameters and goals in mind you have not taken the time to look up.

    @lonchbox I agree on that point. The Links post type hasn't been gone that long. And for those that added it back in via plugin.. What is it labeled as? I looked it over because I thought it WAS the links post type. 'Custom Link' would have been a better label. That did waste a bit of my time due to confusion.

  18. klynam
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #

    If you've reviewed MY threads then you have seen how often I've offered assistance and solutions to WP users when no admin or developer would. I AM contributing member of this forum and the WP community, and that is precisely why I believe I have a voice in the discussion.

    I never said I was a recipient of mod abuse on THESE forums, but it has happened often in the past (on other forums) and I've certainly seen it happen to others on these forums.

    If enabling features (i.e. options) are "old school" now, then why are there ANY user options available in the WP system? Your response is defeated by the very logic it invokes.

    I disagree that RETAINING functions and options for those with preferred and established workflows is inherently discriminatory, but unilaterally removing well established functions / options is inherently NOT discriminatory. This too has no logical support.

    If people - such as me - are not free to voice their opinion (positive or negative) on an open forum about open source software, then that forum is inherently limited in it's value to the members. Note I did not say it has NO value, I said it's value is lessened.

    I'm always surprised and saddened by "tow the line" responses from people who are themselves champions of "open source" solutions as absolutely necessary alternatives to the deaf-eared, unilateral decisions and implementations of "corporate" software solutions. And yet these same supporters staunchly defend unilateral moves by open source developers without question as clearly for the benefit of all those involved.

    This entire thread started over my opinion of the new menu tab as unnecessary - and there is still not one single response as to why that change was an "improvement." But I took the bait, and voiced additional frustrations I have with philosophical changes in the WP system. That was my mistake.

    I've learned my lesson folks - this is not a forum for opinion, especially dissent or disagreement with the WP developers, administrators, or their supporters. No problem - it's their sandbox not mine. I get it. This is a forum for support, and I will remember and honor that moving forward.

    end of line...

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