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2.7 User Interface UGGH! (37 posts)

  1. flyfisher842
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    12/13

    The new UI on 2.7 is not a step forward IMO. Because the dashboard sits on the left side of the screen, the middle edit column is so small that you can't see a title over 3 words long. A plugin I paid 99 dollars for to do special SEO on posts is also not as usable because it sits in the miniscule middle edit column on the screen. Having drag and drop for stuff on the right side of the screen without allowing resizing and putting it on the left with the dashboard stuff is basically useless as far as I am concerned.

    I like the drop down menus in the board but either put it back at the top of the screen or allow for drag and drop so we can put the dashboard where we want it. ie. at the top of the screen while maintaining the drop down menus. This would allow for 2 inches more space to add to the edit column. 2 inches of very valuable screen real estate.

    I can only hope that a real person will read this somewhere soon and some action may be taken in the 2.7 release 2 in the works. Til this interface stuff gets more user friendly, I am going to migrate back to 2.6.5 and run my plugins that make it 2.6.5 user friendly.

  2. ariyako
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    running Wp 2.7 and try this plugin

    Fluency Admin 2 is a plugin by Dean Robinson

    i bet $100 u will like it~

  3. makitk
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    Here's a novel idea for the developers, which I will repeat as long as it's necessary:
    - Use themes for the admin controls as well as the forefront.
    - Add the 2.6 layout as a theme so people can customize.
    - Add the admin controls to the admin theme editor. Either in the already existing theme editor or a seperate admin theme editor.

  4. fesworks
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    I also agree that 2.7 UI is CRAP! Before all the links I needed were clearly at the top, even the sub-directory links, or whatever. Now I have to freaking hunt and located them (as well as SCROLL) to find what I need!

  5. Chris_K
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    Just a suggestion for flyfisher: you can rearrange elements on the screen. In fact, if you're running at a low resolution/large font size, you might just drag and drop some boxes to get it all in one column instead of two.

    Use "Screen Options" at the top of the page to hide stuff you don't use or want to see for more space.

    You can also "collapse" the left navigation menu to get some space back.

  6. fesworks
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    All the stuff that was so very convenient at the TOP, along with nice sub-menus, has not been completely crappi-fied by being shoved to a left column in which I need to SCROLL to find what I want... It's also completely disorientating. It was PERFECT at the top. What you suggest does not fix that at all.

    Not to mention my RSS feeds have been destroyed by 2.7... I have no idea what to do to fix it.

    I Also looked for "Fluency Admin 2" as one suggested. Not on the WordPress site. But I did find the site. It still has all the stuff in the left panel. Bring back the 2.6 interface as an option. I have pure hate for 2.7 so far. Nothing beneficial has happened yet with it. only setbacks.

  7. Samuel Wood (Otto)
    Tech Ninja
    Posted 5 years ago #

    Don't like the wide left menu? Minimize it by clicking the little tiny arrow icon in between the menus to make it shrink left to just the icons. Then mouseover the icons for popout menus.

  8. fesworks
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    No, I don't like the left menu at all. I liked 2.6 with everything easy to see at the top, and no hunting for things.

  9. fesworks
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    I should mention that I think WordPress is great and all. Obviously this is something aesthetic. I should also mention I'm one of those people that get very frustrated when I nice routine is disrupted and changed drastically by something I have no control over (such as a User Interface). So I apologize for my rage here.... still... more user interface layout options would be nice (what's currently there in the main is nice, but being able to be more customizable would be better.. as I had already mentioned, would be much better.)

    But it looks like I'm just going to have to re-train and deal :/ :(

  10. Samuel Wood (Otto)
    Tech Ninja
    Posted 5 years ago #

    No, I don't like the left menu at all. I liked 2.6 with everything easy to see at the top, and no hunting for things.

    Most people prefer the left-side menus, because there's no searching through tabs that way. Trying to guess which main section the sub-menu you're looking for is under is an exercise in frustration.

    more user interface layout options would be nice (what's currently there in the main is nice, but being able to be more customizable would be better.. as I had already mentioned, would be much better.)

    Many of the developers (myself included, but not *all* of them, obviously) are of the opinion that having extra options like this actually hurts usability in the long run. Especially when those options are somewhat useless.

    Customizable is not necessarily better, as many, many years of user interfaces and "skinning" has proven. It leads to a disbalanced and fragmented user base, with different customized interfaces causing too many choices for the newcomer. The whole "skin" concept often leads to *less* users, not more. It also leads to the default skin being stale and not getting updated regularly, since it takes the skinning burden off the main development team. This is despite said default skin always being the first thing the newcomer sees of the application, as well as being the most common skin used for the application.

    So no, I don't agree with you on this one. "Skinning" should be considered harmful. And while it's true that changing the interface will cause some people to be happy and some to not be, on the whole I think that this interface is much improved over the horrible UI of 2.5 and 2.6. I think that most people like it and those that don't can get used to it fairly easily. And I think that the few things seriously wrong with it are relatively minor bits here and there, not really critical missing pieces from it.

  11. maidanet
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    It's one thing to look at it as a developer's standpoint, but I'm getting complaints from my clients who are frustrated with the new interface.

    I've still got clients on 800x600 resolution whose sites I set up on WordPress for ease of use to allow them to do authoring and small maintenance themselves.

    Having the menu on the left side makes everything seem much more cramped.

    I don't think having the ability to move the menu to the top or the left side is an unreasonable option to ask for.

    I just hope that we can avoid another major UI change at the whim of the latest UI trend.

  12. honewatson
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    @Otto42

    Sorry but I disagree with you Otto.

    I was neutral towards the 2.5 change in UI.

    The CrazyHorse UI study perhaps justified a UI change. The problem is the best features of CrazyHorse UI which made the UI better were replaced in 2.7 by untested features. It seems like somebody thought that the CrazyHorse UI was simply better because the menu was on the left hand side.

    Many of the developers (myself included, but not *all* of them, obviously) are of the opinion that having extra options like this actually hurts usability in the long run. Especially when those options are somewhat useless.

    Customizable is not necessarily better, as many, many years of user interfaces and "skinning" has proven. It leads to a disbalanced and fragmented user base, with different customized interfaces causing too many choices for the newcomer.

    This point you make here is contradicted by the jquery sortable UI included in 2.7. Users can now customize their admin layouts extensively with drag and drop. A multitude of plugins also have always provided further changes to the admin.

    Not only can you drag and drop but you also have the 'screen options' which allows you to leave out or include UI blocks.

    Adding the ability to drag the menu to the top for horizontal or including the ability to select that in 'screen options' is a relatively minor addition in functionality considering all the core to required to make that happen is already there.

    Some new aspects of the UI are just plain poor.

    The worst new aspect is the "Add New Post" completely replaces the "Title" label for the title field on the add new post page.

    For new users there is nothing to hint what the title field is for. You just have to guess that the title goes there.

    Was it really necessary to make the default grey?

  13. Samuel Wood (Otto)
    Tech Ninja
    Posted 5 years ago #

    The problem is the best features of CrazyHorse UI which made the UI better were replaced in 2.7 by untested features. It seems like somebody thought that the CrazyHorse UI was simply better because the menu was on the left hand side.

    I wouldn't go that far. The menu was reworked and the look was different, but the UI is functionally very similar to the CrazyHorse test.

    And it's important to remember that CrazyHorse was a TEST. Not a finished product. It was testing usability, not aesthetics. In fact, CrazyHorse was downright ugly, IMO.

    This point you make here is contradicted by the jquery sortable UI included in 2.7. Users can now customize their admin layouts extensively with drag and drop. A multitude of plugins also have always provided further changes to the admin.

    Rearranging and removing pieces is not the same thing as "skinning". And plugins have always been a lot more than mere minor changes to the user interface. They also have not gotten a lot of traction, most people still use the default interface rather than install plugins to change it.

    However, some elements of skinning in WordPress do exist. It's just called color scheme. In reality, that loads a different CSS file, which can rearrange things if it really wants to do so.

    Adding the ability to drag the menu to the top for horizontal or including the ability to select that in 'screen options' is a relatively minor addition

    I really disagree with you there. It's a relatively small change, but a huge functional difference that most people would be uncomfortable with. It also would remove the ability to select any menu from any other admin page, like it did in 2.5's UI.

    The worst new aspect is the "Add New Post" completely replaces the "Title" label for the title field on the add new post page.
    For new users there is nothing to hint what the title field is for. You just have to guess that the title goes there.

    That's it? That's the best you got? That the word "Title:" is missing on the left side of the title field is the deal breaker for you?

    I'm sorry, but that is an extremely minor nitpick, at best.

    Was it really necessary to make the default grey?

    I like the gray. More professional looking. But I admit that I do use the blue color scheme.

  14. Roy
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    It's been said before, but these discussions come back with every change in the admin section. I believe it was with 2.5 that some quite drastic changes caused a lot of distress and now when things (in my opinion) are a lot better again, it's distress all over again. In time I got used to the 2.5/2.6 interface, but I still think the 2.7 interface is an improvement. And for all that people don't like, plugins will be made anyway, such as the 'dashboard widget manager' plugin that also I used before this was built in. It's hard to place hundreds of thousands of users the same time, I guess we'll have to get used to that or study a bit and design our own admins.

  15. fesworks
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    Someone told me about Admin Drop Down Menu plugin.

    http://planetozh.com/blog/my-projects/wordpress-admin-menu-drop-down-css/

    Not exactly what I desired, but it has a nice clean look, and I'm actually feeling much better about 2.7 with it on :)

    I STRONGLY recommend checking it out if you hate the left panel admin tools for 2.7

  16. honewatson
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    @otto

    That's it? That's the best you got? That the word "Title:" is missing on the left side of the title field is the deal breaker for you?

    What's the point in having a feedback forum if the moderators are just going to bait people Otto?

    For my own situation where I regularly have new users the problem is legitimate since I have had an increase in support requests from not only experienced users but also new users.

    As for your other responses we're comparing your subjective opinions to my own.

    You're entitled to your view that the grey looks more professional but I think it just looks dreary. For as long as I can remember the UI has been some kind of blue. It seems like a radical departure from the branding and changes the overall feel of wordpress. On what basis was this decision made?

    The problem is the best features of CrazyHorse UI which made the UI better were replaced in 2.7 by untested features. It seems like somebody thought that the CrazyHorse UI was simply better because the menu was on the left hand side.

    I wouldn't go that far. The menu was reworked and the look was different, but the UI is functionally very similar to the CrazyHorse test.

    And it's important to remember that CrazyHorse was a TEST. Not a finished product. It was testing usability, not aesthetics. In fact, CrazyHorse was downright ugly, IMO.

    Interesting point Otto. Let's compare it to one of your first responses on this thread.

    Most people prefer the left-side menus, because there's no searching through tabs that way.

    To me this confirms my original point. Changing the menu to the left was not necessarily the most significant benefit of CrazyHorse. The most beneficial aspect of the CrazyHorse UI was to simply have a large 'Write Post' button in the the top left part of the UI.

    This is now gone.

    Instead the short cut is placed in the top right of the screen which is not a natural place for a westerners eye to view.

    I reiterate that CrazyHorse UI is different and the changes made to 2.7 drastically effect some of the benefits gained with the CrazyHorse UI test.

    There are three main actions for the majority of uses:

    1. Write Post
    2. Edit Posts
    3. Moderate Comments

    Having three big buttons in the top left corner for these three activities would drastically increase usability and intuitiveness for both new and experienced users.

    The Icons are worthless in adding usability and in fact can inhibit it.

    Having the Icons in the menu mean that there is less room for the words and therefore the fonts are smaller.

    Better to have no icons, bigger fonts, and faster load times.

    I find the long left hand menu a pain in my 15.4 inch laptop and even worse on a netbook. Constant scrolling.

    But that's not all.

    1. In theory there may be a benefit that you can get to anything because its only 2 clicks maximum away but I for me its difficult find and see anything with the new left hand menu. The overall effect of the left hand menu is poor readability. Others have confirmed this experience.

    2. Most of the items in the left hand menu are probably accessed less than 5% of the time users are in their wordpress admin. I'm talking about plugins, settings, pages etc. Why have these in the main menu when all it does is clutters the menu and makes it more difficult to see and access the main tasks?

    That's my feedback.

    Meanwhile I'm starting my own Admin UI project for WordPress.

  17. Jen Mylo
    Key Master
    Posted 5 years ago #

    @honewatson: You're making a lot of assumptions. We did, in fact, conduct usability testing on 2.7, so the changes from Crazyhorse were not untested as you state. I just didn't publish another report on it because it wasn't a priority, given the huge amount of work we had to do to get 2.7 out the door. You assertions about what is intuitive for the majority of users seems to be based on your own opinion rather than objective testing, and doesn't match up with what we found in testing. Good luck with your Admin UI project; plugins that make you happier with the Admin UI are always a good thing. However, we did have good reasons for the choices we made given the wide variety of user types within the WordPress community. I'm going to try and write up a document about the design process for 2.7 to serve as a companion to the Crazyhorse test report I published earlier, so I won't go into individual things like particular button locations and such here. Before you accuse moderators like Otto of "baiting" users in this forum, though, I'd suggest you consider the tone of your own posts here... making such strong assertions about what works and doesn't work for our users (as opposed to assertions about what works and doesn't work for you and users you are in contact with, a much smaller sample) seems likes it's baiting the development team and all the people who contributed to designing/building 2.7.

  18. honewatson
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    @janeforshort

    Thank you for your work on WordPress and your efforts to improve the experience for everybody.

    My aim was to offer feedback and criticism which is the name of the forum. I offered alternative view points regarding specific aspects of the UI throughout both my responses and gave specific reasons why.

    I reviewed my responses and in the context of this forum name I don't know how you can consider either of my responses baiting. I acknowledged that Otto was entitled to his view point. I also acknowledged that my viewpoint is subjective in my response.

    I know that it hurts when people criticize hard work. Naturally you want everyone to like and feel great about the work you did, but the name of the forum is feedback and criticism.

    Being able to openly offer feedback and critiques is an important aspect of a products continued improvement.

    I have one final idea to offer.

    WordPress TinyMce comes with an 'Advanced' button which offers additional functionality when clicked. Perhaps this concept could be applied to the overall WordPress Admin where menu items such as the Settings Page, the Plugins Page etc are toggled when an 'Advanced Settings' button is clicked.

  19. hopedarby
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    I have to say, this new 2.7 interface is pure hell for me. As a writer, what I liked best about previous versions of WP was the ease of writing, navigating, and editing offered by the dashboard interface. Call me simplistic, but there it is.

    This new interface is tedious, every plug-in I have is essentially useless (and I'm sorry, but I am a writer, not a developer, and it took me bloody well next to forever to find what I needed, get it right, and be delighted with it), and I am pulling my hair out over this horrible new layout.

    If I had known that the "hey trust us and upgrade now!" link in would have led to this, I would have NEVER clicked it. As it is, I am furious, frustrated, and feeling completely betrayed. I may be one meaningless user in a vast pool of millions, so I doubt anyone out there really cares, but if this isn't fixed soon I won't be sticking around with WP. I don't want to have to re-develop everything I have every time a programmer decides to force me to via an upgrade without warning me that a total change is imminent.

    More fool me for trusting, I suppose.

  20. hopedarby
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    I do apologize for my snarky tone of voice up there, I am just intensely frustrated.

    Truly, I do appreciate the hard work that goes in to making WordPress the amazing service it is. I understand that it is a rather thankless job, especially when things like this happen, and I know it isn't possible to please all the people all the time.

    I'm just feeling the effects of the brick wall and my forehead meeting a bit too often tonight over this whole thing...

  21. fesworks
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    Seriously, Try Admin Drop Down Menu plugin.

    http://planetozh.com/blog/my-projects/wordpress-admin-menu-drop-down-css/

    Feels like this is how the 2.7 interface should have been, and looks very nice. Might be a problem for people still stuck below a 1024x resolution... but really, no one should still be on 800x600 these days.

    This menu could still be better (like a choose your own order or something), but it's much nicer to work with.

  22. hopedarby
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    fesworks, you are my new best friend.

    For some reason, I did not see a link in your previous posts. I had the Ozh Drop-Down Menu already installed, and I've been loving it for many months now, but it would not work with the new 2.7 installation. I decided, "What the heck," and clicked on your link, though, and lo and behold, there is a new, updated version of the Drop-Down menu that DOES work for 2.7.

    It's not perfect, it's not as lovely as the old version, but it is DEFINITELY at least three worlds better than what it was.

    So THANK YOU, fesworks!

  23. einstein2008
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    Hi folks,

    There's a reason you say "Never touch a running system" :-)
    It's always hard to get used to something new. But: I really want to try. My first impression was "YEEEKS" but then I tried to work with 2.7 like I had never seen 1.x-2.6 ;-)

    This cleared all obstacles out of the way but one: why isn't it possible to resize the editor window? Or am I just to blind, dumb whatever to do so?

    Thanks for the great work to the whole designer/developer team who has worked on 2.7!

    I WILL get used to it :-)

  24. Samuel Wood (Otto)
    Tech Ninja
    Posted 5 years ago #

    What's the point in having a feedback forum if the moderators are just going to bait people Otto?

    So, moderators are not allowed to have opinions?

    I encourage you to reread my posts, but this time leave your own bias out of it. I am trying to have a straightforward discussion, not to "bait" anybody.

    To me this confirms my original point. Changing the menu to the left was not necessarily the most significant benefit of CrazyHorse. The most beneficial aspect of the CrazyHorse UI was to simply have a large 'Write Post' button in the the top left part of the UI.

    This is now gone.

    Instead the short cut is placed in the top right of the screen which is not a natural place for a westerners eye to view.

    ... Again, I have to say that this seems extremely minor to me. Left, right, once you know where it is then you know where it is and it's not confusing anymore.

    Also, "Westerners" are not the only people who use WordPress. You might want to consider your bias here.

    There are three main actions for the majority of uses:

    1. Write Post
    2. Edit Posts
    3. Moderate Comments

    Having three big buttons in the top left corner for these three activities would drastically increase usability and intuitiveness for both new and experienced users.

    Two of those are in the very top menu (which stays open if you leave it open) and moderate comments is not something usually accessed via menu. Generally it's via link from email. And anyway, moderate comments has been drastically improved with keyboard shortcuts for speed and ease of use.

    Also note that those actions are hotlinked from the main dashboard area, where it tells you how many comments you have to moderate and so forth. Clicking those links is fairly intuitive.

    The Icons are worthless in adding usability and in fact can inhibit it.
    Having the Icons in the menu mean that there is less room for the words and therefore the fonts are smaller.
    Better to have no icons, bigger fonts, and faster load times.

    Graphical visual cues improve usability and help people find things faster. Also, that seems like a minor nitpick to me, since they're only like 16px.

    I find the long left hand menu a pain in my 15.4 inch laptop and even worse on a netbook. Constant scrolling.

    I thought you wanted bigger fonts. That would mean more scrolling. You're being a bit inconsistent here, friend.

    1. In theory there may be a benefit that you can get to anything because its only 2 clicks maximum away but I for me its difficult find and see anything with the new left hand menu. The overall effect of the left hand menu is poor readability. Others have confirmed this experience.

    You know, font size is up to you, not to the browser. Increase the browser's font size. WordPress does not specify pixel size fonts, like any good semantic webpage should.

    And yes, reorganization will make it more difficult at first, but the reorg is an improvemenmt, over time. You're judging too early, the thing has only been out a week.

    2. Most of the items in the left hand menu are probably accessed less than 5% of the time users are in their wordpress admin. I'm talking about plugins, settings, pages etc. Why have these in the main menu when all it does is clutters the menu and makes it more difficult to see and access the main tasks?

    If you'll notice, they have been grouped together into specific menus, and are at the bottom. Meaning that a) you can close them and they take less space, and b) they're at the bottom and off the screen, so if you don't use them, why do you need to scroll all the time anyway?

    Also, improvements to the plugins system means that some plugins which make settings pages can now put their settings link beside their plugin name in the plugin list, instead of needing to have their own specialized menu for those options. Meaning that many plugins, if they'd update, would not need a menu item any more. There's other minor improvements like that as well, intended to reduce clutter in the long view.

  25. Samuel Wood (Otto)
    Tech Ninja
    Posted 5 years ago #

    This cleared all obstacles out of the way but one: why isn't it possible to resize the editor window? Or am I just to blind, dumb whatever to do so?

    Grab the bottom right corner of the window and drag it down, same as it was in 2.6.

    This might only work in Visual mode. HTML mode turns off the pretty javascript editing stuff.

  26. thenonprofitcommunity
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    Dear Otto42, janeforshort, & HandySolo:

    First, thank you for providing WordPress.

    With version 2.7 you are moving in the wrong direction I think. The purpose of WordPress is to write words. The interface should excel at this. Using icons on the left side helps return screen real estate to the purpose of creating posts, but keeping "Publish", "Tags", and "Categories" on the right again reduces screen real estate that should be available for doing what WordPress is for: writing words.

    Yes it is possible to remove these boxes, but then one must re-enable them to actually make available what has been written or to make them searchable.

    I notice that in your feedback forum, the window does not contain any active content on the sides! You make this a standard in WordPress!

  27. Samuel Wood (Otto)
    Tech Ninja
    Posted 5 years ago #

    Using icons on the left side helps return screen real estate to the purpose of creating posts, but keeping "Publish", "Tags", and "Categories" on the right again reduces screen real estate that should be available for doing what WordPress is for: writing words.

    Yes it is possible to remove these boxes, but then one must re-enable them to actually make available what has been written or to make them searchable.

    You know how you can drag and drop those to move them around? Have you tried dragging all of them over to the left side of the screen? Seen how the two columns becomes one wide column? Without disabling anything?

    Yeah, thought not.

  28. honewatson
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    @fesworks

    Thanks for the tip on the drop down menu. I like the overall feel of this plugin and will make some additional changes for my own users.

  29. jabecker
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    I was pretty vocal in my dislike of the WP 2.5 and 2.6 UI. Ick. I disliked it so much that I wrote a hack to turn major parts of it back into something resembling WP 2.3.

    I'm pleasantly surprised by the WP 2.7 UI.

    I like having the menu on the left. I realize that's subjective. I like being able to shrink it down to just the icons. It was hard to find things at first, but I've gotten used to it very quickly. I like being able to get to any sub-page from any other sub-page.

    Can't begin to tell you how much I love being able to move things around to my hearts content. And banish things completely that I don't need and that have been cluttering up my screen for eons.

    I'm not wild about either of the color schemes. The gray is dreary. And the blue just isn't my cup of tea. But that could be easily fixed.

    The one thing I really don't like is not having the list of draft posts show up on the Write New page. I tend to write drafts in batches and then finish them in batches. It's so handy to just click on the link right there to go right to the next draft. I can't understand why that wasn't added back in. I seldom use the Edit Posts list - where the drafts are not obvious anyway. I know that the drafts are listed on the dashboard. But I'm afraid that out of sight is out of mind, and drafts are going to be forgotten and languish unfinished because they're not in my face all of the time reminding me of their status.

    Well... that and there's still no way to attach a category to a page. But I realized that's asking for a lot and I'm probably in a minority there.

  30. thenonprofitcommunity
    Member
    Posted 5 years ago #

    Otto42:

    Thank you for pointing out that the modules can be moved. WordPress 2.7 starts out dismally, but can be changed into a very pleasant and useful writing interface.

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