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Can't Upload Pics--Do the Devs Know? (36 posts)

rookcifer
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

I see a lot of posts here about problems either uploading images to the gallery or people being unable to insert existing pics into posts. I am having the former problem.

I am starting this thread so people who cannot UPLOAD pics could post their issues or their fixes. Whenever I try to upload, I can choose my image from my HD, but when I actually click to upload, the pop-up box just freezes on 0% and nothing ever uploads. I am using Linux and Firefox, but this issue appears to be OS independent and browser independent.

Is there any way we could have a "sticky" in this forum where the developers could acknowledge they understand the problem exists and are indeed working on it? Also this would allow us to be informed of an update.
Otto42
Moderator
Posted 3 months ago #

They know the problem exists, however so far all reported cases have been issues with the specific server or installation. Many people who have mod_security have issues with the uploader in general, for example.

The uploader does indeed work. For those that are having problems, you need to determine why you're having problems, because it's most likely a server issue, not necessarily a bug in WordPress.

Simply posting here that it doesn't work for you is not enough. This forum is for solving problems with individual installations, not bug reporting. We don't do bugs, we solve issues. You have to be willing to help fix your own problems. People who simply complain and don't try to help us help them generally get ignored.

This always happens after a major upgrade. For a good while, About 75% of the problems posted will be because people didn't upload all the WordPress files, 10% will be people complaining about the changes, 5% will be actual solvable problems, 5% will be mod_security breaking things, and maybe only 1-2% will actually be caused by a legitimate bug. It's normal after a release.
LostInBrittany
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

I don't get why mod_security is making things so difficult. It shouldn't.
mod_security is usually a hosting controlled module, a server configuration feature. Software like Wordpress should be able to work independly of mod_security. Technically is possible, the NextGEN Gallery plugin has almost the same feature of WP 2.5 Gallery, but it works despite any mod_security setting...
So any mod_security problem IS a legitimate bug.
Otto42
Moderator
Posted 3 months ago #

No, not at all. mod_security frequently blocks things that WordPress is trying to do, like POST calls and file uploads and such. Usually, this is because of overly strict rules on somebody's hosting and so forth. AJAX calls can easily be blocked accidentally by mod_security, which is why I always recommend disabling the damn thing. Other people disagree with me of course, but you know what? I like my software to work as designed without seemingly arbitrary rules intentionally getting in the way.
mikeo75
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

This bug is NOT OS-independent, because I'm able to upload via IE easily now that I fixed the comma problem, but Firefox on Ubuntu wont work.

If I can do it with IE, but not FF/Linux, then it's not a server or security problem.

And NextGEN Gallery works for me just fine. Should I be using that?
Otto42
Moderator
Posted 3 months ago #

The uploader is Flash based. Flash has been known to have issues in FF on Linux boxes before. Might check to see that you're up-to-date on the flash stuffs.

I do not know (nor care) what NextGEN Gallery is, but WordPress is free software. You're free not to use it if you don't like it.
mikeo75
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

No reason to get all huffy Otto, we're just trying to figure out what's wrong here.
LostInBrittany
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

I'm using NextGEN gallery, and it simply works.

If they can make things work independly of server settings and OS, there is no reason for the official Gallery being unable, I think.

So, and of course, IMHO and YMMV, it is a bug.

And I LOVE Wordpress, this is not Wordpress bashing.
Otto42
Moderator
Posted 3 months ago #

I'm not getting huffy, I'm getting mildly annoyed.

Look, here's the thing. This forum is not for reporting bugs. If you think you have a bug, and have real information on the bug, go over to trac.

This forum is for attempting to solve problems. Nobody in this thread, or in half a dozen other threads, is giving any useful information or attempting to solve their problems in any way at all.

If you say it doesn't work for you, well, that is not helpful. Say why it doesn't work. Say what it does do. Debug the thing, and give us useful information to work with. We're willing to help with what knowledge we have.

Maybe you're not capable of that? Hey, that's fine, I understand, but continually saying "fix it fix it fix it" or similar sorts of things in dozens and dozens of threads is not helpful. It clutters up the forum and makes the very limited number of knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum have to hunt that much harder for problems to solve and people to help. Even saying "it works on this browser, not on this other one, you must be wrong, nyahhhhh" is a rather useless post.

We're trying to help as many people as we can here, but we're doing this for free, voluntarily, because we care. And complaints and threads like this one are getting in the way.

That's what I really find annoying.
rookcifer
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

Yeah, why the attitude, Otto?

I have changed nothing with my browser, OS, and I am certain my hosting provider has changed nothing either. If this is the case, it is reasonable to assume that there is an issue with this latest Wordpress update.

Just yesterday, before I upgraded to 2.5, I could upload pictures to my heart's desire through the admin panel. Something has changed, and it is NOT on my end, or on the end of 90% of the people here complaining about it.

And if we aren't allowed to ask about bugs here, then what forum is appropriate for that? After all, this is the official Wordpress forum.
mikeo75
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

Otto, for someone like me, I thought this WAS the place to try and get help and figure out what is wrong. If there is some other place, like "trac", I had no clue.

I figured we are trying to solve it by bringing whatever information we can to the table. The problem is that for the last day, I've not seen any Wordpress tech get on and say "we're working on it" or anything to ease our minds.

Now listen, you say this is free, and I get that, but if you are going to release software and support it, then you cannot get mad at people who want it to work right.

We run a pretty busy blog and not being able to upload images like I did in the previous version is frustrating.
Otto42
Moderator
Posted 3 months ago #

If this is the case, it is reasonable to assume that there is an issue with this latest Wordpress update.

No, that's my point, it really is NOT reasonable to assume that.

WordPress 2.5 is a MASSIVE change. It is virtually wholly new software. The interaction between your server and a piece of entirely new software is not predictable. It gets tested on as many systems as possible, but they cannot predict every single server configuration and setup.

So yes, it will have problems on some people's systems. But the majority of the systems out there have no issues with it. What we get in these forums are often the edge cases. Those take time to sort out.

Also, those edge cases cannot be fixed without USEFUL information with which to find the problems. Nobody can make a code change to magically fix a problem until they know what the problem is.

You can discuss bugs all you want. Just don't call it a bug until you are absolutely certain it is, because once you decide that it's a bug, and once other users read that it's a bug, then nobody wants to help anybody fix the damn thing. They just say "when will it be fixed" and don't give any details, don't offer any debugging information...

It's NOT a bug until the actual cause is found.
Otto42
Moderator
Posted 3 months ago #

Otto, for someone like me, I thought this WAS the place to try and get help and figure out what is wrong. If there is some other place, like "trac", I had no clue.

It is the place to get help. But "get help" doesn't mean the same thing as "we magically discern the answer to your problem without any actual information".

You're having problems. I understand that and sympathize. But you're the one having the problem. The thing works perfectly for me on all the setups I've tested it with. So we don't exactly know the answer to your problem because, and this is important, we do not have your problem. If the problem had ever come up before in testing, it would have been fixed.

Problems occurring immediately after a major version release are generally the difficult ones. We don't just need people who have the problem, we also need people who have the problem and know enough about debugging and programming to help us with proper information so as to track the problem down. Then it becomes a known problem and we can hand out answers easily.

I figured we are trying to solve it by bringing whatever information we can to the table. The problem is that for the last day, I've not seen any Wordpress tech get on and say "we're working on it" or anything to ease our minds.

I appreciate that you're trying to bring info to the table, however you're not going to see anybody say "we're working on it" because debugging doesn't work that way. You have to reproduce the problem, find the root cause, and create a solution. Without all three steps, nothing occurs. And reproducing the problem is the most difficult part, because you need detailed information on the problem to begin with. More detailed than what just browser you're using.

For the record, I am sitting in an office with about 400 computers around me, running various flavors of everything. I have access to every browser and almost every operating system. I setup a test site and tested it with Opera, Safari, Firefox, IE on an Ubuntu system, Windows, Mac OSX, and an old Redhat system. With the exception of the redhat box, the uploader worked on all of them, and the redhat one didn't have Flash on it.
rookcifer
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

Otto,

OK, I understand that. But for us non-programmers and non-PHP experts, how exactly do we go about debugging a piece of software? All I can say is that on my end nothing has changed (browser, OS etc.). I also doubt my web server has changed anything since yesterday, but I can't be sure. Since 99% of us do not run our own web server, how are we supposed to provide detail about server settings we don't have access to? About the only thing I know about my server is that it runs a Linux distro (not even sure which one) with Apache as the server software. I have no idea what exactly their security settings are.

Again, like the other guy here, I am not bashing Wordpress at all, but simply trying to figure out what's the matter. If there are other forums more appropriate, point me to them.

I understand how it can be annoying, as a moderator, to sift through a thousand posts with the same content (which is why I suggested a sticky, but apparently that isn't an option in this type of forum).
mikeo75
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

I think I've provide information that the fix I saw on here with the Comma's issue helped, but running FF on the latest Ubuntu platform has issues.

That information should be easy enough for someone to test, and if they have the same problem, then it's an issue.

My Firefox plugin is:

Shockwave Flash version 9.0 R48

Anyone know if I need a newer version?
xanathon
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

If you are not willing to help people with lower technical expertise and bear that they may ask dumb seeming questions then you are probably wrong in a support forum. Support means ppl without much knowledge asking questions. If you think the questions are dumb then you are the one acting wrong. Help them to rephrase and do not get all grumpy at them.

The problem in quite some cases IS Wordpress 2.5.

Why? Because 2.3.3 worked just fine. If it stops working in 2.5 the problem does not lie with any servers, but only with WP2.5. Why? Because 2.3.3 worked just fine.

To say "if you don't like it, use another one" is a very unprofessional attitude from someone who should help other people, if you excuse me for saying so.

And again: 2.3.3 worked, 2.5 in many aspects does not and not all of the problems are server issues or wrong handling. You can see that easily if you look through the posts her in this SUPPORT forum.

If you cannot bear all those questions by people pleading for help you maybe should lean back, drink a beer and breathe a few times, and hope it gets better...
Otto42
Moderator
Posted 3 months ago #

Why? Because 2.3.3 worked just fine. If it stops working in 2.5 the problem does not lie with any servers, but only with WP2.5. Why? Because 2.3.3 worked just fine.

The problem with that idea is that 2.5 doesn't "stop working". The uploader *WORKS*. At least, it does on my test site, it does on my servers, it works when I set it up using XAMPP... What more do you want?

A "bug" is a bug everywhere. There has to be some reason it works for me and not for you. We need to find that reason, and claiming that 2.5 has a problem is not helpful towards that goal.

The goal is to find the problem, not place the blame. Placing the blame is useless and annoying. Calling it a "bug" before you've actually found it is the same thing. It shuts minds, closes doors, and makes it more difficult for us to help people.

So stop it.
LostInBrittany
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

But 2.5 just stopped working on my server, where 2.3.3 worked. And NOTHING else has changed, because it is MY server and MY navigator, and I'm 100% sure nothing has changed. So it is a regression.

A bug doesn't need to be exist everywhere. A thing that doesn't work in some systems where it worked before, is a bug.

If a new release of a program fails to work in a setting where the previous release worked, it is a bug, a regression bug. And if the system (navigator and server in Wordpress case) hasn't changed, you cannot say it's a system problem.

Wordpress 2.5 has several regression bugs in Image Gallery management. Saying that it has a bug is not bashing the software, it is accepting the truth.

Now, I understand perfectly that you haven't got this problem in your system. And that you cannot correct it is you haven't it. I don't ask you to magically discern the answer to my problem. But please, don't tell me that "it is not a bug". Jedi mindtricks don't work for me.

I've been using open source software for years. I've posted a lot of bug reports in many pieces of open source software, from Firefox to Inkscape, from Thunderbird to Open Office. And in my day job, I'm software engineer. I'm more a Java developper than a PHP one, but I think I can try to get the debugging info you need. If you tell me what you need.

And please, Otto, don't take it bad. I know you and all Wordpress dev team have been working a lot for this release, and I guess that everybody here (me for sure) find Wordpress 2.5 really SUPERB. I do.

It has oly a little bug, that will be corrected soon. I's normal we focalise in the thing that doesn't work, but it doesn't mean we cannot see all the great thing that work. You have done a WONDERFUL work with 2.5.
mikeo75
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

Well, I just upgraded my Flash version from 9 r45 to 9 r115 and the uploader works...

Not sure if that was the overall issue or not, or if restarting the browser had something to do with it, but I'll test it on my home computer as well later.
Otto42
Moderator
Posted 3 months ago #

OK, I understand that. But for us non-programmers and non-PHP experts, how exactly do we go about debugging a piece of software?

Probably, you don't. You can weigh in and say you have the problem, and then either try to fix it or wait for a fix or revert back to a previous version or whatever. But simply posting that you have a problem over and over doesn't help to get it solved. Quite the opposite, in fact.

If a new release of a program fails to work in a setting where the previous release worked, it is a bug, a regression bug.

WordPress 2.5 is not simply a "new release". As far as the uploader goes, it is an entirely new piece of software. There's no "regression bug" because there's nothing to "regress" to. It is really, really, not an upgrade; it is wholly new software. WordPress 2.3.3 had no Flash in it, for example.

I think I can try to get the debugging info you need. If you tell me what you need.

What I need you to do is to go over to http://trac.wordpress.org and post the bug there, and follow up on it there. The main WordPress developers read that site. They generally do not read these forums. Mainly because of threads like these and problem reports like the ones I've been sorting through all day.
xanathon
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

Well, it does not work completely on my live site and it does not on my local XAMPP. If it works for you: be happy.

XAMPP is no real criterium anyway as the configuration is quite different to those used by hosters, so you cannot really use that as a proof of "no bugs".

The definition if something is a bug or not is a superfluous philosophical discussion. Again: In 2.3.3 it worked, in 2.5 it does not. If it is a coding bug or bad programming (technical not a bug) is not the point. Something that worked ceased to do so.

Most of the people would be happy to go back to 2.3.3, but with the statement that there will be no security updates anymore for that, this is not an option. So, if you like it or not, you have to rely all these problems to the developers, if they are bugs in your opinion or not.

I would really like to see what would happen, if each and everyone posts into trac, as you suggested above. That would render it inoperable. This forum is to filter bugs, design flaws and other problems and you should help with that and not bully people looking for help, because a perfectly working software turned into a heap of [censored].
LostInBrittany
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

Otto, I didn't knew about the trac, going there now. I guessed that support forum was the right place to post bugs.

And I guess that having several dozens of similar threads about this bug can be rather irritating, but I guess it is very understandable. People just upgrade, they find a thing that doesn't work, and wht do they do ? They post in the Troubleshooting forum. The forum name seems to indicate that it's the right place to post about a problem, doesn't it ?

Oh, and I just edited my last post, so I prefer saying it again here :

And please, Otto, don't take it bad. I know you and all Wordpress dev team have been working a lot for this release, and I guess that everybody here (me for sure) find Wordpress 2.5 really SUPERB. I do.

It has oly a little bug, that will be corrected soon. I's normal we focalise in the thing that doesn't work, but it doesn't mean we cannot see all the great thing that work. You have done a WONDERFUL work with 2.5.
Otto42
Moderator
Posted 3 months ago #

The forum name seems to indicate that it's the right place to post about a problem, doesn't it ?

Oh, it is. However, it would be nice if people a) searched first and b) posted enough information for those of us in the know to actually be helpful. As it is, these sorts of threads are essentially useless. Not enough info to help anybody, not enough info to reproduce the issue, not enough info to debug with... It's downright frustrating.

The definition if something is a bug or not is a superfluous philosophical discussion.

No, it really is not. I'm sorry that you think it is, but I assure you that it's not. When people post here looking for help, and they read that "it's a bug", then they don't attempt to solve it, they expect to be given a fix. A "bug" implies a "bugfix", does it not? Trying to talk them into debugging is such a pain in the arse at that point.

Words matter. Especially here, where we have nothing but words.
LostInBrittany
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

Oh, it seems the bug has already been posted to trac :
http://trac.wordpress.org/ticket/6406

And they have accuratly guessed forum reaction :
Leave the option checked by default if you're worried about catching errors with the core, but be sensible -- the forums will be FLOODED with folks "screaming" about an inability to upload and if the "official" reaction is "Download this plugin, install it, activate it, then try uploading", I think it's going to be a rough ride. "Go to Settings->blah and unclick that 'Use Flash Uploader' setting" shows care, forethought and attention for users' various settings and whims.
Otto42
Moderator
Posted 3 months ago #

Huh. Didn't know it had a disabler plugin. That will be handy as a temporary workaround.

Disable the flash uploader:
http://trac.wordpress.org/attachment/ticket/6406/no-flash-uploader.php?format=raw

Okay, I made a sticky post. I'll update it as we find out new things. That make everybody feel better?
LostInBrittany
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

Rhanks a lot, Otto !

I guess that will help lots of people.
ijohnw
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

Okay, is there any fix for this yet? I see a lot of people are having issues with the image uploader in 2.5 when writing a post as it is totally gone! Where did it go?

I did write a post about it

http://www.ijohnw.com/2008/03/31/upgraded-to-wordpress-25/
Otto42
Moderator
Posted 3 months ago #

See what we have to deal with?

See the sticky post:
http://wordpress.org/support/topic/164999
ericcumbee
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

I am having pretty much the same problem i can click the media buttons, and the Ajax barber poll progress bar pops up and then i am kicked back out to the front page of my site.

I upgraded from 2.3.3, and i think that i copied all the files over correctly. i looked at the .htaccess file and it looks fairly standard

# BEGIN WordPress
<IfModule mod_rewrite.c>
RewriteEngine On
RewriteBase /
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-f
RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d
RewriteRule . /index.php [L]
</IfModule>

# END WordPress

i am in a dreamhost shared hosting environment. I have also run through all of the check list in the stickyed post to no avail.

Are there any specific files i need to look at and make sure got copied over? What other data do we need to provide. i am willing to work through this as much as i can.
dkpw
Member
Posted 3 months ago #

In case it helps anyone using Slackware 12. Here's how I worked round the issue to upload images in FireFox 2.0.0.13

Upgrade Flash to the latest Linux version from Adobe - 9.0.115.0.
Extract the installer but don't run it, it will only complain about the glibc version being too low. Edit the install bin to remove all references to glibc version checking and then run. Restart Firefox and you can now upload images.

So from my point of view, the issue is with WP using and expecting a particular version of Flash.